Lotus Elan

accuspark distributor no start

PostPost by: SENC » Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:15 am

LucasIgnitionTesting6.jpg and
#6


LucasIgnitionTesting7.jpg and
#7


LucasIgnitionTesting8.jpg and
#8


LucasIgnitionTesting9.jpg and
#9


LucasIgnitionTesting10.jpg and
#10
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PostPost by: checkrail » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:05 pm

I have the battery on trickle charge all day its showing 12.5v , all the engine and chassis earths are nice and shiney but it struggles. to turn over, have tried with the plugs out and it whizzes round so the starter motors fine.
There is no timing notch on the pulley but the PO has added a neat white mark, I've set it to 10 degrees and static timed the dizzy with a lead light
I've checked the dizzy with the rotor arm at 10/11 o'clock
It seems to me it's too far advanced to turn over, do I try retarding now?

John
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PostPost by: checkrail » Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:25 pm

It's finally running, after again with a lead light fired first turn of the key.

But there is a loud knocking somewhere around the back two carb area which was not there before, I've not run it more than 1000 rpm

John
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PostPost by: Craven » Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:17 pm

I would double check your TDC mark; a simple way is to use a suitable rod/ screwdriver through the sparkplug hole on #1 to piston top. You need to slowly turn the engine by hand, and the top of the stroke can be easily found on the forward upward direction only. This is a method used by us classic motorcycle guys where timing is given in dimensions before TDC as the end of the crankshaft is not visible.
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PostPost by: jgrover » Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:16 pm

This won't help until you get your standard points to work, but I bought an Accuspark and had the same problem, but when I called them they said it will only work once the engine is at cranking speed so if you are trying to time statically - you can't!

My solution was to re-fit the points, release the distributor securing bolt (the one to the block not the clamp) and turn the securing strap to one extreme position of the elongated hole - remember what position it is. Secure it.
Static time the points as normal by releasing and adjusting the distributor clamp - engine at 10 degrees before TDC (or whatever yours should be) , move distributor well back, put a plug in #1 lead and earth it to block, turn on ignition, then turn distributor until plug sparks, then clamp up distributor. All is now statically timed
Now remove distributor from block - not by slackening the clamp, but by undoing the securing bolt so distributor and clamp strap come off together.
Fit accuspark to distributor, re-fit distributor to engine, remembering to which extreme of the elongated hole you used so the accuspark is now APPROXIMATELY timed same as the points.
Now the engine should run, but timing will be out, so get a strobe ready, loosen distributor clamp (do NOT move it yet), start car and strobe it to correct idling timing, moving distributor as appropriate, when correct clamp up distributor.

When I did this, initially timing was about 10 degrees out, but the engine will run, you just don't want to run it for long at this far out.

Accuspark now runs like a dream.

John G
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PostPost by: Craven » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:52 pm

JG
checkrail wrote:I have the battery on trickle charge all day its showing 12.5v , all the engine and chassis earths are nice and shiney but it struggles. to turn over, have tried with the plugs out and it whizzes round so the starter motors fine.
There is no timing notch on the pulley but the PO has added a neat white mark, I've set it to 10 degrees and static timed the dizzy with a lead light
I've checked the dizzy with the rotor arm at 10/11 o'clock
It seems to me it's too far advanced to turn over, do I try retarding now?

John
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PostPost by: jgrover » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:08 am

Sorry - when I said "This won't work..." - I was referring to my tip not the one from the previous correspondent.

Apologies for the confusion.

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PostPost by: davidj » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:19 pm

Good afternoon,

I, like John "checkrail" have just purchased an Accuspark Elan distributor and am just about to fit it. John: did you manage to get yours to work OK? I am concerned about the advance curve of this distributor as mentioned by "promotor". Attached is a graph of the advance curve for the Accuspark Dizzy, but unsure if it is the same as the original 41189A. I guess the graph does not take into account the static timing as well, while the figures in the Wilkins book do.

Thanks in advance (pun intended) for any suggestions.

David
Attachments
23 Advance Curve.jpg and
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PostPost by: checkrail » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:56 pm

Hi David, I have fitted it, as I don't have a timing gun I positioned the rotor arm the same as the points dizzy and it fired straightaway. Just needed to rotate it slightly left and right until it sounded nice and even.

I know that's not very accurate but I'm pleased with the way that the car runs so far. Perhaps I was lucky

Good luck, John
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PostPost by: davidj » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:47 am

Good morning,

As I am unsure about the advance curve on the Accuspark distributor matching the Lucas original I contacted Accuspark. This is their reply.

The lotus Elan has is a standard Twin Cam engine i.e, not Turbo, Supercharged or has a massive compression, so does not require low advance it also no emission requirements or Low compression so a high degree of advance is required, It has a Mid-range requirement That is why we supply a Mid Curve.
The Distributor may be mid range but that is what is required.
The distribitor is suitable for all perfomance standard compression 4 cyl engines. The Distribuitor is correctly described .


So a question for those more knowledgeable than me about advance curves etc, do you think this would be suitable? The advance curve for the 41189 is shown in the Miles Wilkins book, and from what I can see, taking account of the static advance, the accuspark would appear to have significantly more crankshaft advance at 4000rpm than the lucas.

Cheers.
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IMG_20200929_102559.jpg and
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:03 am

Forget that stuff in the Miles Wilkins book. It's not accurate.
Suggest use the attached from the Ford workshop manual for the Lotus Twin Cam emgine. 41189 distributor and SE cams. Upper line is the upper limit of the tolerance. Lower line is the lower limit of the tolerance. Distributor speed and distributor advance is half that at the crankshaft. Does not include static advance.
Attachments
Lotus SE mech. advance.jpg and
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
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PostPost by: davidj » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:31 pm

Thanks very much. As I thought, the Elan accuspark distributor has way too much advance, so I will return it. By chance, as anyone a 23D4 41189 distributor sitting around they wish to part with?

Cheers,

David
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PostPost by: TBG » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:06 pm

David - where are you in the world? I do wish everyone put their location in their signature box!! :roll: :roll:

I may have what you are looking for...............
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PostPost by: davidj » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:29 pm

Afternoon TBG

I have sent you a PM but for ref, I am in west Yorkshire, UK

:)
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PostPost by: davidj » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:42 pm

Has anyone used this company? Spoke briefly this morning and they said they can build a new 23d4 with electronic ignition and any advance mapping for less than £100.

https://www.ignitioncarparts.co.uk/Cont ... 20Ignition
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