Lotus Elan

EFI solutions and comments

PostPost by: gav » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:19 pm

Just picking up the earlier points, I am a self taught mechanic and I didn’t think it was a difficult instal. You have to plan every aspect (fuel supply, electrics, ecu, bodies, leads & plugs, linkage, sensors etc) before you start. Decide what goes where and research thoroughly- particularly which elements need to be kept apart (like the coil and signal leads) and think about what access and maintenance will be needed for set up and ongoing.
I had a few chats with Dave at Emerald and he guided me really well.
I made a panel to house the ecu and fuses and located it under the dash in the recess by the drivers door (in a sprint)
Even with all of that I’d still do it again.
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PostPost by: gav » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:25 pm

Meant to mention - I rubber mounted my pumps and they are still noisy.
One of my next tasks is to isolate them better. I have a separate swirl pot separate from the tank.
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:16 pm

Is there room, around the rear differential for a pump. Also maybe a filter.
Would add "quietness", if thats a term.

I believe some of the fuel cells have provisions for pump sender assembly. Though I am not sure how senders work in a sack.
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PostPost by: disquek » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:29 pm

You really want the pump in the tank. You wont hear it there.

Plus you need some type of fuel accumulator. A carburetor has a float bowl to draw from when the fuel in the tank sloshes away from the pickup. With EFI that exposed pickup results in a loss of fuel pressure and a lean mixture. That can cause stumbles, or worst case, a melted piston. Modern tanks have baffles. Cars that are driven hard need even more to keep the pickup covered. Typically that's trap doors like in an oil pan. You can use an external swirl-pot/accumulator. That always seemed like more things to fail and leak.

If I were to inject an Elan, I'd make a custom tank with proper baffling and a provision for a return.

I have a '65 Mustang Fastback that I'm in the process of injecting. The nice thing about those cars is that the aftermarket has made _everything_ to get it done. Tanks with accumulators, etc. It's plug and play. With the Elan, it will be a lot of custom pieces and head scratching. Fun. But not easy.

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'70 S4 Elan - Cosworth BDP & Spyder Chassis
'62 S2 Super Seven Cosworth
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PostPost by: HCA » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:18 pm

Sorry, I have been off line a few days, so catching up.

Thanks Kyle - yes there are purpose made tanks for injection of an Elan. I am waiting for one as I write. They have collector to hold an amount fuel to counter starvation. They also have a return feed. Fittings are JIC-6. So I am ok here. My issue is keeping the Sytec pump quiet,

Thanks also for the words on the differences of pressure and throttle position. I had a chat with Dave Walker who explained why he only uses TPS, but said to come back when I had a turbo and he will add MAP sensing :D

Thanks Gav for the idea of rubber mounting. I have old mini exhaust rubbers that should do the trick...

I think I might do some experiments on fuel pump position...

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PostPost by: gav » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:05 pm

On the basis that a photo says a hundred words:-



I haven't started making the boot floor yet so its all a bit stark in there at the moment. The tank isn't standard and wraps around the spare wheel.

Over the diff is the swirl pot and filter #8 out and #6 back from memory. The lifter pump is vertical on the inner arch and I think it is this that is noisy. The high pressure pump is hidden by the filter. The tray over the diff is rubber mounted and that seems to work ok.
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PostPost by: gav » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:07 pm

and here is the ecu with fuse box above...
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PostPost by: HCA » Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:28 am

You have put dome thought into the installation!

I was unsure where to mount the ECU, and wonder if you have a good solution there.

My nemesis is the pump arrangement and now decided - if cost is not prohibitive - to have my tank modified for an intank pump.. more later if it pans out!

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PostPost by: gav » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:55 am

Yes - with an in tank system if designed properly you should be able to omit the swirl pot and lifter pump which should make the installation much more straightforward.
You might want to locate the access plate in a position where if you do need to get to the pump, you don't have to remove the whole tank.
Also, I had my tank fitted with a sump drain so that if I did need to remove it, I could empty it first.
Finally, if you are not going completely original, you might want to consider a more modern gauge float that is accessible from the top. The standard one is hidden away and is a 'tank out' job to repair or replace.

Once I have finished all of my jobs, I need to work out how to trim the car but I want to deal with all of the issues first - including noisy lifter pump.....

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PostPost by: LaikaTheDog » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:50 am

In tank pump, retro fit kit... from usa

https://www.jegs.com/i/FAST/244/307033/10002/-1
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PostPost by: HCA » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:53 am

That is a lot of money imo, for what in effect is a pump and a handful of fittings. Then there is fabrication cost on top,

I am hoping to get out at this price to inlude fabrication and pump on top of the tank price.,,
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PostPost by: RichC » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:04 pm

for what it's worth, i recently did a conversion after much thought on my holbay 1725 lump in my sunbeam alpine.
it works fine on a Emerald ECU & i'm a complete amateur who knew nothing about plumbing in fuel supply for EFI.

The standard '60's Alpine has twin tanks in the rear wings joined together by 2" pipe which runs along the rear valance and the fuel supply comes off it first as a steel pipe underneath & across the floor of the boot (GB) and then as a nylon pipe running down underneath to the engine at the front .
There is a breather pipe that runs from the top of one tank to the top of the other, by the filler .

After much thought I ditched the swirl pot idea and 'in tank' pump as expensive and unneccesary.

The old nylon fuel supply line became my new fuel return and i plumbed it into a T piece which i added into the breather pipe midships between the two tanks .
The old steel fuel line then supplied a new fuel filter and bosch high pressure pump which i installed underneath in a protected position,but easily accessible. High Pressure fittings and braided teflon line was then installed running next to the repurposed original fuel line to the pressure regulator and fuel rail at the front .

I did worry/wonder how the new fuel return would behave as it is sharing the breather pipes !
i haven't encountered any issues with this setup yet .....
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PostPost by: HCA » Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:23 pm

Indeed, this would work a treat, and from what you say, is working a treat. I did briefly think of this for my Elan - except of course not using the balance pipe but a connection from the bottom of the tank with the pump lower.

The issue to this that conventionally - I am not sure if legally - fuel is always sucked up from a tank through a down pipe exiting the top of a tank so that in a failure or accident fuel is not allowed to escape. This is in conjunction with a fuel-cut knock sensor on modern cars’ bodywork.

For this reason, I will pay a bit extra 8)
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:14 am

Just coming late to this excellent thread. Just going through similar research for my Plus 2.

For an in-tank pump conversion, I like this kit. Called the Aeromotive Phantom Stealth 200. A bit spendy at first blush, but with the limited space in a Plus 2 I really like an in-tank design. Looks relatively easy to get a really nice install without odour issues. This kit is their universal fit version; the same company lists model specific pump & tank kits for popular American Muscle cars.

https://aeromotiveinc.com/product/phant ... el-system/

From my measurements I think it will work in a Plus 2 tank, but have not tried it yet. Not sure of the Elan tank dimensions. There are a few very good YouTube videos that show the installation process and some advantages. My tank is an Axminster aluminum replacement, but without the swirl pot stuff.

Edit: Here is a link to the product brochure that describes it pretty well

https://aeromotiveinc.com/tech-help/phantom/

Here is a link to the installation instructions (a bit difficult to get to directly on the company site)

https://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content/up ... -0revE.pdf

A Google search on Aeromotive Phantom Stealth Installation will bring up several helpful videos. Although there are two sizes based on flow rate requirements (200 and 340), the install is similar.

Quick follow-up question. Does anyone know if their are any internal baffles or braces inside the standard Axminster tanks? Anyone got one handy that they can look inside thru the fuel sender hole?

HTH

Stu
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41D3EAD0-3CA3-44F4-9406-19E0915D01EB.jpeg and
Aeromotive Phantom Stealth 200 in tank kit. The rubber piece forms an in-tank baffled sump for fuel suction & return. The yellow foam is trimmed to fit the tank depth and keeps everything located after being stuffed thru the mounting hole. Pump is inserted from the top on a trimmed to length metal mount. Thick gasket under the top plate is designed to fit over the irregular surfaces that are common on stamped externally mounted fuel tanks. The silver piece is a cutting and drilling template. Hole saw and a drill are all that is required to install. Looks like the pump mount design should run quiet as it is isolated by the bottom plastic foot, thick top gasket, and the foam surround. I was thinking of plumbing a full return system with -6 AN fittings and hose.
Last edited by stugilmour on Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:14 pm

This level sender is in my +2 fuel cell, shorter one on the baby

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ ... ecID=10320
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