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EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:32 am
by HCA
My new car will be with me when I can find a good transporter quote, so first thing will be the important stuff like EFI. I am interested in the various combinations and comments from users so that I can perhaps get the best.

Probabaly a given that I will use a Jenvey inject system with the basic webcon barrels. The Heritage bodies do look gtood, but as all the commentators say, great if you have a perspex lid.

Fuel delivery though has me a bit lost. I am reading a lot about returnless fuel delivery, but I can't quite get my head around the reasoning for it or any advantages other than saving a few euros on a length of pipe.

I read in past threads that the Axminster tank with a built in swirl pot is the bees knees - I have them bookmarked and will call them today, hoping he is still in business making tanks. Otherwise, it will have to be an external pot.

Now, big question: ECU. Is anyone using the MAXX ECU?

Coilpacks I hope is a no brainer - Ford, yes?

Second big question - where is a good place on the body to place the knock cut-off sensor? I ask because something is telling me that with the elasticity of GRP, a badly placed sensor might not get jarred from every point of the car - also it needs to be in a good place for reset. All help on this one will be appreciated.

Thanks
Hal

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:40 am
by JonB
Can?t comment on EFI but I have a low pressure Huco pump supplying my Dellortos. I put the cutoff switch just to the right of the pedal box, on the bulkhead. It came from a Ford Ka.

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:44 pm
by jono
Hal,

I went most of the way with my Plus 2 including Axminster swirl tank, coil pack, TPS, crank trigger sensor, wasted spark ignition etc and never made the not inconsiderable (fiscal) final step to go over to full EFI.

I reasearched it extensively and there used to be a good chap on here by the name of Brian Clark who shared a lot with me - if you PM me with with your personal email I will ping it over to you as a PDF.

The cost of Jenveys a decent ECU (Omex/DTA) and other bits always prevented me from going to full EFI as there was always something else calling on the ?2k or so required to make the final step. In any event, the fully mapped wasted spark ignition made a massive imrpovement on it's own especially when I eventually had a full rolling road set up of the carbs. I then sold the car as it had become as good as I could ever get it (miss it now :( and even the Evora that replaced it is not enough to put the same smile on my face).

Cheers

Jon

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:57 pm
by HCA
Thanks Jon - pm on way!

Yes, once you start, the cash pot opens up. It is not for the faint hearted!

I am fine with it though as I cut me teeth on a lot of MGB conversions.

I refuse to drive a car now that relies on two bits of metal touching each other on and off and being regulated by bob weights flying around in a cylinder that is always badly placed :D :D If I were Boris, as my first job, I'd forget about brexit and outlaw distributors :mrgreen: . Then next year, follow with carburetors :mrgreen: .

I spoke with Andy at Axminster (what a nice chap..) tank on order. Trigger Wheels are sending out a trigger kit leaving me with the Jenveys and which ECU option 8)

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:12 pm
by elanman999
HCA,
I've had EFI on my Elan for nearly 8 years now.

TB's yes just normal Jenvey DCOE flange TB are very good. In this day and age I would use a P & G contactless throttle pot.
Returned or returnless,it's up to you. Both work but I am using a returned system. In theory using a returnless system with the mechanical pressure control unit in the boot with a dead leg to the fuel rail some 250 pipe diameters away is a poor way to control things, but I cannot deny it does work.
Pipe work, if you are running it through the car the it needs to be either hard line (i use Kunifer 5/16 brake pipe) or PTFE with AN fittings. Most rubber(ish) pipe is permeable and so will smell the car out with fumes.
By the sounds of it you've sorted the fuel tank.

No, the ECU is not the big question. It's a four pot N/A Elan most of the ECU's will be OK. Emerald, DTA, Omex MAXX etc will all do the job. But what extra's do you want/need, traction control, map switching etc? Are you going to have a play with the settings? Which software do you like best, most can be download for you to play with before you buy.
The big question is who is going to map it? He or she is the key person in the whole conversion.A good system poorly mapped will be not a nice car to drive. I would find a good mapper and see if he likes your choice of ECU before you buy.

Coil pac? I have a Valeo but Ford are also fine.
I am running an Emerald mapped by them and would not change it.
Both Emerald and the SBD Motorsport web sites have lots of good general info on "going EFI".

Just my thoughts, YMMV.
Cheers
John

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:14 pm
by pauljones
Speak to the guys at Emerald. They will do as complete a kit as your requirements ask for.

Look at my previous posts on efi too.

I'll say again for you and anyone else here, I have a full rolling road set up map I can email anyone for use with a twink and Emeralds ecu.

Paul

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:33 pm
by HCA
TThanks John and Paul.

John, I think you summarised what I want with your question on what I want to do. In this case, simple injection, ignition advance and retard etc. Plus you asked who would map it. Good point too - it will be a chap who looks after an RS3 that I have. He is a VAG person and therefore I do not want anything too complicated outside the basics.

Way back I had a 5L MGBGT V8 that did everything, right down to locking the doors when setting off. I used an Emerald on that (is Dave Walker and Leoni still running the show there..?) but it was a complete headache. This time I want something clean and simple hence thinking MAXX over Emerald. Having said that maybe a call would be worth it if they can do a basic program - especially Paul if you are willing to share a map to start things off. I also better see what my friendly mapper in France thinks about Emerald...

Hal

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:07 pm
by elanman999
Hal,
OK, I can see why you are a bit cautious of Emerald but from your description you did the sort of things to that car that make modern cars a pain to work on. Just too complicated.
On my Elan the ECU only controls the HP pump, the cooling fan, ignition and fueling. Simples.
PM me if you need any more info etc.
Cheers,
John.

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:52 pm
by Donels
You could try John Wilcox Engines. He will supply you a complete kit, check out his web site.

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:51 am
by HCA
The issue I have with people who can supply complete kits is that they must have a rolling road as part of their package AND you must be close by to use their rolling road. A prime example is Emerald where it is all inhouse. So many just want to sell the kit and cannot supply the fine tuning.

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:57 am
by HCA
John, Paul

Where did you get your trigger wheel - was it Trigger wheels? Do they or another, do a trigger kit especially for the twin cam complete with mounting bracket.

I am not sure if this is a separate topic question - but when I remove the radiator to fit the trigger wheel, is there anything I should consider for long term cooling? Is the standard radiator good - bearing in mind some of the ambient temperatures here are high. If a larger core radiator is considered a step up, now might be the time to introduce it maybe?

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:56 am
by nigelrbfurness
Anyone done it using a Bosch MAF system and ECU as fitted to Vauxhalls etc fron the 1990s - I've seen this fitted to Lotus Esprits with the 907 engine but with suitable throttle bodies it should be easy and cheap to do.

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:01 am
by pauljones
HCA,

Emerald do have a RR, so a one stop shop, however unless its changed they will not fit the gear. I asked many a time.

Anyway, the extra kit I had to get,
Trigger wheel, QED sourced on 36/1 pattern.
Ignition coil and leads, Ford Generation 2 Qed sourced, standard leads from mondeo (I needed 2 sets because I mounted coil to far away so had to get second set so leads would reach,) Halfords sourced.
Dizzy blanking plate and fuel pump blanking plate, cant remember.

Trigger wheel is the type that incorporates the lower pulley too, and when fitting has to maintain an air gap to the pick up points.

I have now fitted a wide band sensor and that has been set up to improve cold starting and general running, needed a second RR session.

Initially I ran some very thin(25mm?) K&N air filters but as pointed out by a good friend left no room for the required ram pipes, this has now been changed to a much deeper ramair filter and backing plate, giving space for ram pipes and a better mounting for the air temp sender. You can still use the original style if you wish.

So just to recap,

Axminster return type tank,
Bosch pump
Jenvey TBs/kit supplied by emerald
Return to tank via pipes under carpet(I will change one day)
Plus all the above.

104.7bhp at rear wheels on JKM RR in Portsmouth
110.7bhp at rear wheels on Slark RR in Amesbury

She drives beautifully and is reasonably quiet in 4th but having fitted a 3.54 different really needs a drop to 3rd to pick up,

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:04 am
by pauljones
nigelrbfurness wrote:Anyone done it using a Bosch MAF system and ECU as fitted to Vauxhalls etc fron the 1990s - I've seen this fitted to Lotus Esprits with the 907 engine but with suitable throttle bodies it should be easy and cheap to do.


Not on a twink but a zetec, I have a very much home made system that uses a different plenum but then alot of OEM gear, powered by a timex ecu.
Something like that would be possibly a cheaper alternative.

Re: EFI solutions and comments

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:28 am
by HCA
Thanks Paul

I called QED and yes, they have the kit with brackets alog with a diz blanking bung, so ordered and another box ticked!

I had planned the fuell ines to be Speedflow series 100 but fay at Speedflow told me today not to use that as it is permeable using ethynol, but use their teflon series 200. Awaiting for that to arrive to see what the bend radius is as Andy needs to know where I want the fittings on the tank.

btw - my wording was maybe poor - I meant that Emerald was one of the suppliers who do have a RR unlike a lot of others who are really just dealers. I spent many a day there with a frightful MGB I built and made a mess of :cry: