Lotus Elan

+2 Gearbox 5/6-Speed Lotus Chassis

PostPost by: piple » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:39 am

Hi all,

Thank you for all the input. Very interesting.

So I see, the best options are the T5 and the MCT75.

I would have loved to get the AV-solution, but I may can slightly open the y-part for the gear lever. But I am never allowed to modify the chassis that way installation instruction shows. And as I change the engine. The car will go through a very detailed IVA :roll:

The T5 version looks straight forward, but the T5 is not easely to get hold of in mainland Europe. I foud an address, but I have first to crosscheck availability.

The MCT75 has the question about the bellhouse to the Duratec. Are here solutions availble which includes a solution or the starter?
I am not sure about the options I see from burton. Other suppliers?

Does a Type9 bellhouse fits to the chassis including the starter?

Kind reagrds,
Arion
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PostPost by: worzel » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:35 am

Hi Arion

re your point about mating a MCT75 box to a duratec- might be worth checking out as Ford may well have stayed with the same fixing pattern so a Rocket to BDA bellhousing might well bolt straight to the duratec.

Regards

John
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PostPost by: piple » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:53 am

Hi John

As strolling to the internet, I learned the duratec is the first enginge, where the fixing patern bellhouse / enginge has changed.

I found some reading about the conversion of Spyder fans elan. I hope he can help about the bellhousing. It was just written, there was a one found but not which one.

At the moment I'll tend to the MCT75 solution (send you a pm), due to the availability of T5-gearboxes here. But I'll keep a eye on the net near by me 8)

Kind regards,
Arion
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PostPost by: Vic » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:41 pm

Arion,

T5's were used in lots of cars. Ford Sierra Cosworth, Nissan 280ZX turbo, Isuzu Rodeo, TVR, etc. What may be difficult to source is the Chevrolet S10 Pickup (4 cylinder, 2-wheel drive) tail housing, which will likely need to be sourced from the U.S. The T5's came with two trans to bell housing bolt pattern, Ford and GM, you need a Ford pattern for the quad4rods.com bell housing to fit. I think that all but GM uses the Ford pattern, GM even switched to the Ford pattern on S10's in 1994. There are also two styles of gear sets. The non-world-class, where the gears ride directly on the shaft and uses 90w gear oil and the world-class with needle bearings between gears/shaft and uses ATF for gear oil. The Sierra Cosworth was the first car using world class, but from the early 1990's, all were world class. Aftermarket gear sets are made for the world-class with helical (quiet) gear sets with a 2.4 to 1 first gear available. Lots of 5th gear options also.

You are correct that the Duratec bolt pattern to different and larger than the Twin-cam/Kent pattern. The starter bolts to the block (not bell housing), so all that is needed is a window opening in the bell housing for the starter. You will need an aftermarket starter to clock the solenoid (or gear reduction motor) either up or down in order to clear an Elan chassis.
Olympus car photos 128.JPG and
Here is picture of a T5 in a TTR chassis, you can see how I opened up the shifter hole a little.
Olympus car photos 129.JPG and
This picture is of an engine/transmission mock-up in a TTR chassis. The silver rod reprsents the steering shaft on my left-hand-drive car. You can also see the pocket where the starter goes. The stock Ford starter has the solenoid sticking out towards the frame upper lip.

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PostPost by: worzel » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:46 am

Hi Arion

I've already sent you a pm but if you're still looking for a MCT box you might try the Morgan owners club as these boxes were fitted to various models (I think my info is correct).

Regards

John
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PostPost by: piple » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:53 am

Hi John

just anwsered. :)

I am still not sure which gearbox, as I still investigate all additional 'challange' is waiting with the chosen one.

Regards,
Arion
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:57 pm

The bell housing you need to attach the Duratec to a MCT75 is the compact bell housing by Raceline, I think Burton do a similar one, maybe it's the same..... You will need a lightweight flywheel, the clutch assembly and a starter also by Raceline. The starter position is to the left rather than the normal Elan position to the right, this makes more clearance for the exhaust.

http://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part_section.asp?SectionID=26&CategoryID=1

I had the luxury of having a specially made to measure Spyder Spaceframe chassis to suit the Duratec installation, even with this it was not an easy project getting it to fit. You need to expect lots more problems to overcome with the location of the steering rack and the drop links for the anti roll bar as well as the fabrication of an exhaust manifold.
Kindest regards

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PostPost by: piple » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:03 pm

Spyder fan wrote:The bell housing you need to attach the Duratec to a MCT75 is the compact bell housing by Raceline, I think Burton do a similar one, maybe it's the same..... You will need a lightweight flywheel, the clutch assembly and a starter also by Raceline. The starter position is to the left rather than the normal Elan position to the right, this makes more clearance for the exhaust.


With this infos I'll tend further in the direction MCT75. As I prefer to buy complete kit.

You need to expect lots more problems to overcome with the location of the steering rack and the drop links for the anti roll bar as well as the fabrication of an exhaust manifold.


At least once is the LHD a small advantage :D

Regards,
Arion
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PostPost by: worzel » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:21 pm

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Hi Arion

Was going to send a message direct to you but thought others might be interested in seeing some of the bits associated with fitting a MCT 75 box to a 2 seater. Since I can only post 2 pictures at a time per message I'll have to resort to "splitting" the message between posts. Should come clear though (I hope).
Firstly, a shot of the MCT. Apologies for the two pictures- don't know how that happened. This picture shows the fabricated bracket bolted to the top of the box (using the existing tapped holes). This bracketry has to be low to fit into the chassis. The short stubby projection with the hole in it is actually the selector rod. you can also just see the end of the small rose joint to which the gearlever attaches. Also visible is the modified attachment for fitting the speedo cable. You'll also see another bit of bracketry which replicates the "V" shape of the 4 speed box that fits into the gearbox rubber mounting.
Next shot shows a close up of the same top bracket for the gearlever.
The next shot is a close up of the bracketry for the gearbox mounting.
The next is a close up of the modified attachment for fitting the speedo cable.
Next is the large "dowel" I had made in stainless that fits into the front casing of the box. The MCT uses two small dowels to locate the bellhousing unlike the 4 speed std box that has a large round "boss" that serves the same function. This stainless plate simply pushes into the front of the box into a recess as a tight fit and is held in place by two metal brackets that bolt to both the boss and also the inner face of the bellhousing which needs to be drilled and tapped to suit.
This picture shows those two plates. Actually, fitting these plates might be overkill but if the centre boss loosens I imagine it will produce a continuous rattle whilst the engine is running.
The next shot shows the guide sleeve for the clutch bearing plus the afore-mentioned recess in the front face of the casing. This sleeve has to be custom made as Ford don't use this release system- favouring a co-axial release arrangement. Actually Ford do make the sleeves but from memory theirs isn't suitable because of both its diameter and also it is too short. The sleeve screws into the casing of the box and is merely loctited into place so you don't require any press tools to fit it.
The next picture shows the assembled gearlever plus the special Ford fitting for attaching to the selector rod. This Ford fitting is made of both rubber and metal- presumably to minimise vibration. To fit it to the box it simply slides over the selector rod, a hard steel pin then slides thru both the Ford part and the hole in the selector rod and the whole assembly is held in place by a special spring clip.
The next picture shows the reverse side of the gearlever assembly and the recessed part that fits over the selector rod.

The gearlever has to be carefully designed as once the box is fitted you need to be able to part assemble the gearlever in situ so to speak as space is limited. Took quite a while to figure it out (and a lot of wasted money as I had to farm out the machining).
The MCT box does have the advantage of having the lever in pretty much the same place as the 4 speed unit- by playing around with the linkage design you could almost certainly get it to exactly match the 4 speed position.
Overall- not quite as straightforward as I thought but definitely doable if you're patient and think things thru. Using most of the std drivetrain fittings is a plus point but some of the specialist items like the bellhousing push up the costs a fair bit.

Regards John
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PostPost by: worzel » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:28 pm

Hi

I can see I'll have to clarify this posting as the order of the pictures has somehow altered (not my fault honest!).
The 1st picture is obviously the gearlever base.
The 2nd is the front of the box casing.
3, 4 and 5 - no explanation needed!.
No 6- the 2 plates used to secure the large "boss" to the bellhousing and casing.
No 7- the special part made to attach the speedo cable (using the std cable incidentally)
No 8- the bracketry that replicates the profile of the underside of the tailhousing of the 4 speed box that fits into the std gearbox rubber mounting.
No 9- the rose joint linkage plus the shallow bracketry bolted to the top of the box.

Sorry for any confusion.

John
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PostPost by: piple » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:37 am

Thank you very much for the pics. I'll wait for the gearbox to arrive, and than start with the adaption. :D
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