Lotus Elan

Toyota t50??

PostPost by: Quart Meg Miles » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:26 pm

Ross Robbins wrote:Kurt,
You commented:
The diff gear change makes the most sense but am wondering how streetable and how hard on clutch's that would be with the close ratio box that my S1 is supposed to have.


I had over 7,000 miles of driving on my S2 with the 3.90 diff and was contemplating another trip of over 4,000 miles so I bit the bullet and ordered the 11/43 pinon/crown combination (3.54) from Burton Power in England. It is the best thing I have ever done to my Elan.

I HIGHLY recommend it :D :D
By contrast, I longed for a 3.54 and after 100,000 fitted one and it killed the car. It always sounded bogged down and although it ran faster in each gear the acceleration was so much slower. I did pull 6,500 rpm in top once on a motorway but basically the gearing didn't suit the sort of roads I normally drove on and I replaced the 3.9 (which is 10:39 on my car) after 25,000 miles. The car immediately came to life again.

My car is absolutely standard and with more power the 3.54 might have worked; I remember some early users reckoning that the higher gearing with the close-ratio box was ideal but they were doing continental cruising with SE versions.
Meg

26/4088 1965 S1½ Old and scruffy but in perfect working order; the car too.
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PostPost by: nomad » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:49 am

Well I'm not saying I would put a "mongrel" engine in but if I did I would not part with the original and would consider that something for the next owner to fit if he wished. Nor would I basterdise the rest of the car. I've always considered stock appearance's to be the most important. Though reversable, to me, swapping in different power is less of an adulteration that fitting non stock wheel flairs. Something many have done. Thats just me and the way I look at things. If the stock power works that is most logical since a swap always ends up costing more time and trouble than was originally budgeted.
Appreciate the many comments but never did find out the dimmention's of the t 50 box. :D

A good new year to you all!!!
Kurt

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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:59 am

Hi Kurt

I think you are approaching this S1 the wrong way. If you don't understand that I would like to see you maximize its potential and make the most of your time I am sorry. Not many folks just get into Elans and keep them (late addiction just is not that common), You are likely to build up what you have and sell it after a bit of fun and frustration. There has always been a premium on the early cars, thats one reason I don't have any. Today that premium is getting larger and larger. I don't believe I have seen any pictures of your Elan 1600 so it's hard to say much about it. Mongrel may not be the right word but it close to what I think and not in the category of an abortion or bastardized. You mentioned flairs and I am not sure thats a general statement or directed at me. Tingles body is a body from another Elan that I bought from Charles Fullup for $100 and the chassis was a freebe from Rick Cranshaw, It has no identity and was created from a bunch of parts. Most were cheap or free, after being involved with Elans for 36 years I have collected some extras. The Marsh Motors S3/S4 bastard is parts of many different Elans an S3 tail section ($75) from Mike Braun and a S4 firewall (free) from Dave Comeau. The two sections grafted together and set upon a free chassis from John Perry. It may have an identity but not anything that is worth "building back" into either and S3 or S4. both of these have flairs that I made from molds that my friend Willie has had for 40 years, they were effectively free as I probably didn't buy the resin or mat for either set.

To get back to your question I did some more looking and I didn't find the page that I remember from looking at this box in 2005 when 5 speeds were the talk of the winter on this forum. I think the outcome was that the T9 that had already converted for Elan use by Alan Voigts was bought by those that wanted them and only a couple of folks made there own. The Alfa box was also installed successfully by Rick Cranshaw with some minor mods I believe. Other that that I don't recall any other besides the T5 that have worked. You are about 7 or 8 years late for this discussion and I gave you the best and easiest as you have the BEST box, the Ultra close for it and the 3.54 ring and pinion makes for a great combination. You seem to not want to believe what I am saying and that your right to think what you want.

Anyhow I found some other info and its Kind of what I remembered. There are 4 tailshafts for the T50 at least thats how I read this guys post

http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/not-so-d ... dap/t/9245

I also found this photo which agrees with part of the above
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... sch&itbs=1

ToyotaT50 front of gearcase to gearshift 19 plus.jpg and


Not exactly what I would call promising for the swap without doing some sort of an external shift adapter or bringing the shifter up though the central box of the chassis.

Anyway have fun and do what you want, it's your car... :D

Gary

Oh yea, I found this one too and it looks better but not all that much...

http://www.mgexperience.net/archive/5_s ... 00/1914370

Image

Here is the search I did to find this stuff

http://www.google.com/images?q=toyota+t ... rt=60&sa=N

Just to let you know I didn't give up on trying to find out the info that you wanted, I found Rick Hargraves info on the T50, that name is one that I remember from doing this search 8 to 12 years ago. I hope that you can use the info.
T50 Dimensions & Pics.doc
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PostPost by: nomad » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:12 pm

I was in no way alluding to you with my flairs statement, Gary. Just a general observation.
I guess I'm getting a little frustrated with spending lotus prices. $800+ for a set of pistons when I had a set of custom pistons quoted for another engine just a few month's ago for $600.
My car came missing the dash and all instruments plus other interior parts missing. It also had had the engine and trans taken out and parts missing there as well.
I thank you much for the t 50 info and envy you and others for your computer skill. My ability amounts to being able to turn it on and type!
I have no problem with welding and machine work but if the shifter would have to be moved out of the tail shaft extention as it appears then things get too complicated.
Thanks again,
Kurt

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PostPost by: nomad » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:12 pm

A little more!
I've always considered the S1 to be the most desireable, to me at least. I believe it has the most attractive interior and exterior. I'm sure the later cars were better cars but I always wanted the S1.
Having said that I'm not sure that getting this car back to original is an option. I keep my eyes open for unobtanium parts on flea-bay and seem to always be losing the bid!
So the idea of a temporary change to other power would kind of go along with temporarily fitting the interior with parts missing!
Anyway, I'm going to dive into the twink and hope I get lucky and can get by with little more than honing and new rings.

Kurt

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PostPost by: David tye » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:52 am

I do own an Elan but I also have an Adelaide built clubman with a 4agze motor. There were about 12 of these cars locally built by ex racing mechanics. Adelaide is the home of Elfin.
The engine is twin charged. It is super charged and then the turbo takes over and ads to the boost. 264 bhp at the wheels and no turbo lag. Car weighs a bit over 500 kg. Totally tractable. Engine had done 78000 when it was put in the car and then another 40000km of track days. I swear by it. Close ratio box and 4.44 diff.
You could put a 20 valve later model engine in with far better economy.
Just FYI.
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PostPost by: nomad » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:38 am

Gary and others... just want to mention that ATF and acetone works great. I had heard that that was the best penetrating oil before but had forgotten it. Rust just disappears with that concoction and leaves nothing but a stain.
Anyway engine is free and as one of my other post's has mentioned I am deciding on what to do with the head. Soon as I can get to it I will check the shim pack and valve wear.

Kurt

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