Lotus Elan

Window Winder Motor

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:37 pm

I've had the window frames re-chromed and assembled new seals and re-cabled the mechanism in line with Buckland's instructions. EDIT: forgot to mention Alex's magic screw fixings.
I'm now taking the opportunity to rewire the motors with relays to protect the old wiring from the switches - to make sure I use the correct wire gauge, what is the maximum current demand that I can expect from these motors?
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1847
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: oldelanman » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:53 pm

Hi Brian,
Just measured the running current is on my motors and it's 2.5 amps to raise and 1.5 amps to lower but the highest current is when the glass reaches the limit of it's travel and the motor is stalled. Can't actually measure that as the ammeter on the battery charger I used to work the motors (doors not on the car at the mo) only goes up to 5 amps but my motors both measure 1.2 ohms resistance so I guess you need to cater for at least 10 amps - is that right?

I think it would be a good idea to fit limit switches or current sensitive relays so the motor stops before it strains the cable and pulleys but I've yet to work out a way to do it.
Roger
S4 DHC
oldelanman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1700
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Location: Dorset UK

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:26 pm

Thanks for the reply, Roger. I've already bought 16A cable in the correct colours thinking that it would be more than adequate for an expected maximum demand of 10A, but just wanted get some reassurance before I completed the re-wire.
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1847
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: bob_rich » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:08 pm

Hi Brian

I think the 16A cable should be OK. Only caution I would make is that the low resistance reading on a test meter may be a bit high. The effect of the motor brushes and the contact resistance of the DVM measuring the resistance it could be a fair bit lower thus giving a higher stalled current. On the plus side the motor are a temporary demand and I would think 16A rating should be OK.

I know the Elan is quite different to the +2 regarding window lift/lower mechanism. My motors that I have just refurbished draw a lot more current up to 15A. I am going to put two wires of 1sq mm (2sq. mm) in parallel for each of the up and down leads

hope this helps best of luck

bob
bob_rich
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 564
Joined: 06 Aug 2009

PostPost by: fatboyoz » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:26 am

Brian,
Here are some wiring diagrams, if needed, for converting window motors to relays.
elan-f15/electrical-help-please-t22676.html
Colin.

bcmc33 wrote:I've had the window frames re-chromed and assembled new seals and re-cabled the mechanism in line with Buckland's instructions. EDIT: forgot to mention Alex's magic screw fixings.
I'm now taking the opportunity to rewire the motors with relays to protect the old wiring from the switches - to make sure I use the correct wire gauge, what is the maximum current demand that I can expect from these motors?
'68 S4 DHC
fatboyoz
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 619
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:50 pm

fatboyoz wrote:Brian,
Here are some wiring diagrams, if needed, for converting window motors to relays.
elan-f15/electrical-help-please-t22676.html
Colin.

Thanks for the thought, Colin, but I'd already fitted the relays about 3 years ago - so you can see how long I've been going to do the windows.
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1847
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: stugilmour » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:58 pm

bob_rich wrote:Hi Brian

...I know the Elan is quite different to the +2 regarding window lift/lower mechanism. My motors that I have just refurbished draw a lot more current up to 15A. I am going to put two wires of 1sq mm (2sq. mm) in parallel for each of the up and down leads

hope this helps best of luck

bob


For reference, I used 28/0.30mm, 2mm2, 25amp thin wall cable for all three leads (up, down and ground) and relays in my Plus 2. I was concerned about ending up with slow lifts from too light a wire. I was able to fit this cable size thru the fittings at the door hinges. For Brian, the Plus 2 is of course a completely different lift mechanism and circuit, so following offered as a guide to cable size only.

The lift works really fast on the one side with a re-built motor, but is still slow on the one side that has the original motor installed. New re manufactured motor is ready to go in to improve performance on the lame side. I also appear to have a dodgy stock switch on one of the circuits; I can hear the relay clicking so the motor power circuit is good, just dirty contacts in the switch on the relay actuation circuit. Does anyone know if I can just flood the switch with contact cleaner, or will I have to disassemble the switch :shock: to clean?

In operation I found I blow 10 amp fuses at the motor stall point. Replacing with 15 amp fuses has solved this problem. As my wiring is good to 25 amps and this is strictly intermittent load I am OK with the set-up. Based on this experience, I would agree with Bob that 16 amp cable should be fine.

Here is a link to the cable I used. The thin wall is smaller OD and fits in the door fittings; the standard might be tight, so something to consider. As a guide, note the cable supplier is calling up 25 amp cable for the windshield wiper motor, which is what the Elan window lift motor was originally. Seems a bit of overkill though; pretty sure I used 16.5 amp thin wall for all of my wiper wires with no issues.

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/V ... inwall.php

HTH
Last edited by stugilmour on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stu
1969 Plus 2 Federal LHD
User avatar
stugilmour
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1754
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:00 pm

stugilmour wrote:For reference, I used 28/0.30mm, 2mm2, 25amp thin wall cable for all three leads (up, down and ground) and relays in my Plus 2. I was concerned about ending up with slow lifts from too light a wire. I was able to fit this cable size thru the fittings at the door hinges. For Brian, the Plus 2 is of course a completely different lift mechanism and circuit, so following offered as a guide to cable size only.

The lift works really fast on the one side with a re-built motor, but is still slow on the one side that has the original motor installed. New re manufactured motor is ready to go in to improve performance on the lame side. I also appear to have a dodgy stock switch on one of the circuits; I can hear the relay clicking so the motor power circuit is good, just dirty contacts in the switch on the relay actuation circuit. Does anyone know if I can just flood the switch with contact cleaner, or will I have to disassemble the switch :shock: to clean?

In operation I found I blow 10 amp fuses at the motor stall point. Replacing with 15 amp fuses has solved this problem. As my wiring is good to 25 amps and this is strictly intermittent load I am OK with the set-up. Based on this experience, I would agree with Bob that 16 amp cable should be fine.

Here is a link to the cable I used. The thin wall is smaller OD and fits in the door fittings; the standard might be tight, so something to consider. As a guide, note the cable supplier is calling up 25 amp cable for the windshield wiper motor, which is what the Elan window lift motor was originally.

Thank you, Stu - the point you make made me smile :) in that I found in my bag of cables some thin wall 25A cable in the correct colours for the motors. It seems, although the memory is a bit vague, I must have bought this at the time I fitted the relays.
I've just tried, and three 25A cables do go through the tube together with the speaker cable - so I guess I shall use it instead of the 16A cable.
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1847
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: stugilmour » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:15 pm

That's funny Brian. I have a pretty hefty box of cable left over, and I think I had four separate wire orders by the time I finished the re-wire.

I just noticed something interesting with the wire supplier. Their standard cable page lists 28/0.30mm, 2mm2, 17.5amp for the wiper motor. This is the same copper conductor size as the 25 amp thin wall mentioned above. Maybe the thinner insulation jacket can radiate more heat and raises the continuous current rating of the cable? Doing a bit of arm waving, it looks like they are calling up between 16.5 to 17.5 amps for the wiper motor, likely to hande stall from ice on the windshield. Anyway, sounds like it's all good for your install.

I don't have speaker wires in my install, but found the tube very tight when I installed additional conductors for electric door locks. If I reinstall them (they failed miserably so I took them out), I may down size to 16.5 amp thin wall for the window lifts.
Stu
1969 Plus 2 Federal LHD
User avatar
stugilmour
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1754
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest