Lotus Elan and Lotus Elan Plus 2 Forums

One more detail of the most recent blog that intrigued me: Jim's comments on the oil cooler fitment. Did I understand that right that it is integrated with the radiator? Or did he mount the oil cooler behind the radiator..?

The benefit is obvious, of course. My car runs with an oil cooler, and it is always a drag to know that the warm up phase takes ages and the engine suffers a lot during this.

Could someone please enlighten me about this matter?

Cheers, Hans

You are correct the oil cooler/heater is inside the radiator. Many modern cars us this design.
I dont know if there is an 'off the shelf' radiator/oil combo made that would work in the elan. I would be interested in getting one if there were.

James

hansaxl wrote:Jim's comments on the oil cooler fitment. Did I understand that right that it is integrated with the radiator?

I am sure that is the intent but I had to chuckle at the notion that a "radiator" is something other than a "heat exchanger".

For a wet sump car using a sandwich plate with a thermostat that bypasses the cooler when the oil is cold is just as effective to get the oil to warm up rapidly and much simpler and cheaper to install...... but i guess cost does not come into it for this car and with the dry sump they have fitted it gets a little more complex to plumb in a thermostat across the oil cooler

cheers
Rohan

CBUEB1771 wrote:

hansaxl wrote:Jim's comments on the oil cooler fitment. Did I understand that right that it is integrated with the radiator?

I am sure that is the intent but I had to chuckle at the notion that a "radiator" is something other than a "heat exchanger".

That's Americans for you -) However, I got what he meant - The radiator exchanged heat from the water to the oil so that it heated up quicker than normal and by being combined the water and oil run at the same temperature. I don't know whether this is a good or bad thing but at least the engine components will be at a uniform temperature.

I had been told several modern cars using this air/oil/water heat exchanger design. After my previous post I looked the www to see if i could find an off the shelf item that would work for an elan. Couldn't find one.

Maybe some of the racer guys can answer if there are any merits to the design.

I think the engine oil would heat faster and it would provide an more stable oil/water temperature

I'm interested in other's comments also

James

Maybe I can throw a bit of light on the subject, having worked on such systems for a number of petrol engines made by a German car maker.
That company uses such a device on many of its present production engines.
The heat exchanger is usually mounted on the oil filter housing, where it can easily tap into the lubrication system to get direct access to the oil.
Coolant is then taken from the engine cylinder head & fed back into the coolant system where a pressure drop is available.

Due to the "work" put into the oil by the oil pump the stream of oil passing through the heat exchanger is capable of giving off some heat into the coolant.
That coolant is at that time (start-up) restricted to a flow that runs through only the cylinder head & crankcase & remains so until the engine thermostat opens & permits coolant to flow through the radiator.

This set-up can improve/increase the the engine warm up time & subsequently reduce fuel consumption & more importantly emissions.

When everything is hot the coolant temperature is usually kept at a temperature below 120?C whereby the engine oil will also be kept at approximately that temperature, that being not only safe for oil which oxidises at temperatures above 160?C, not at all good for longevity but also oil at higher operating temperatures is thinner without losing its lubrication properties will reduce the internal engine friction & provide an improvement on fuel consumption at the other end of the engine operating scale.

The idea of putting an oil cooler into the engine cooler (=Radiator) would provide no significant improvement in engine warm up because the coolant in the radiator is cut off from the engine until the engine is fully warmed up & the thermostat then opens.

Cheers
John

GrUmPyBoDgEr wrote:Maybe I can throw a bit of light on the subject, having worked on such systems for a number of petrol engines made by a German car maker.
That company uses such a device on many of its present production engines.
The heat exchanger is usually mounted on the oil filter housing, where it can easily tap into the lubrication system to get direct access to the oil.
Coolant is then taken from the engine cylinder head & fed back into the coolant system where a pressure drop is available.

Due to the "work" put into the oil by the oil pump the stream of oil passing through the heat exchanger is capable of giving off some heat into the coolant.
That coolant is at that time (start-up) restricted to a flow that runs through only the cylinder head & crankcase & remains so until the engine thermostat opens & permits coolant to flow through the radiator.

This set-up can improve/increase the the engine warm up time & subsequently reduce fuel consumption & more importantly emissions.

When everything is hot the coolant temperature is usually kept at a temperature below 120?C whereby the engine oil will also be kept at approximately that temperature, that being not only safe for oil which oxidises at temperatures above 160?C, not at all good for longevity but also oil at higher operating temperatures is thinner without losing its lubrication properties will reduce the internal engine friction & provide an improvement on fuel consumption at the other end of the engine operating scale.

The idea of putting an oil cooler into the engine cooler (=Radiator) would provide no significant improvement in engine warm up because the coolant in the radiator is cut off from the engine until the engine is fully warmed up & the thermostat then opens.

Cheers
John

John,

You are on the money. Some of us who race Formula Ford use the water/oil heat exchangers sandwiched to the oil filter to bring the oil temperature up to 180F+ so the oil thins enough to reduce pumping losses and friction. Oil at 100C operating temperature is 1/2 the viscosity of oil at 40C. Dyno results from a reliable engine builder shows 100C oil is good for 2 to 3 HP, with no other changes. Proper scraping and windage control, crankcase vacuum from the dry sump, can make significant power from the bottom end by reducing drag and pumping losses.

I am investing in several low cost solutions to take advantage of the above.

Regards,
Dan Wise

StressCraxx wrote:

GrUmPyBoDgEr wrote:Maybe I can throw a bit of light on the subject, having worked on such systems for a number of petrol engines made by a German car maker.
That company uses such a device on many of its present production engines.
The heat exchanger is usually mounted on the oil filter housing, where it can easily tap into the lubrication system to get direct access to the oil.
Coolant is then taken from the engine cylinder head & fed back into the coolant system where a pressure drop is available.

Due to the "work" put into the oil by the oil pump the stream of oil passing through the heat exchanger is capable of giving off some heat into the coolant.
That coolant is at that time (start-up) restricted to a flow that runs through only the cylinder head & crankcase & remains so until the engine thermostat opens & permits coolant to flow through the radiator.

This set-up can improve/increase the the engine warm up time & subsequently reduce fuel consumption & more importantly emissions.

When everything is hot the coolant temperature is usually kept at a temperature below 120?C whereby the engine oil will also be kept at approximately that temperature, that being not only safe for oil which oxidises at temperatures above 160?C, not at all good for longevity but also oil at higher operating temperatures is thinner without losing its lubrication properties will reduce the internal engine friction & provide an improvement on fuel consumption at the other end of the engine operating scale.

The idea of putting an oil cooler into the engine cooler (=Radiator) would provide no significant improvement in engine warm up because the coolant in the radiator is cut off from the engine until the engine is fully warmed up & the thermostat then opens.

Cheers
John

John,

You are on the money. Some of us who race Formula Ford use the water/oil heat exchangers sandwiched to the oil filter to bring the oil temperature up to 180F+ so the oil thins enough to reduce pumping losses and friction. Oil at 100C operating temperature is 1/2 the viscosity of oil at 40C. Dyno results from a reliable engine builder shows 100C oil is good for 2 to 3 HP, with no other changes. Proper scraping and windage control, crankcase vacuum from the dry sump, can make significant power from the bottom end by reducing drag and pumping losses.

I am investing in several low cost solutions to take advantage of the above.

Regards,
Dan Wise

Hi Dan,

quite right; the transfer of heat from oil to coolant or from coolant to oil can be advantageous in many respects.
That is, that either the heating or the cooling of one or other of the fluids can improve performance and/or economy.

I have experience of a very efficient windage tray in a 6 cylinder engine.
It worked brilliantly as part of the lubrication system but the performance guys moaned at me about a power loss of 1Kw.
I was forced to introduce a couple of 25mm breather holes into the tray.
They got their 1Kw back & luckily the windage tray suffered no measurable difference

Cheers
John

James,

I have a water/oil heat exchanger on the race car. It is one of the smaller ones made by Setrab (sp?). Hop over if you would like to see the set up. The engine is also dry sumped and I also use an electric heating element in the dry sump tank to help things along before start up.

Rob

Update Seven is now posted, though to be honest it is not much of an update. Not only that but the backsides of Jay and Jim Hall are in the way of the camera's chance to view what we want to see or more accurately the camera doesn't move to get in shot that which we want to see. Anyway for those of you following the progress on this "Mongo" Elan haere is the latest:
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/restoration-blog-1966-lotus-elan-26r-update-7/index.shtml

Maybe some one should have told Jay to buy a LHD wiring loom from British Masters, but that may have been too easy! I wonder will his Tach work with the electronic ignition?

James

I guess I was asleep at the wheel over the holidays because Jim Hall and Jay have posted not one but two updates. Here they are:

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/more-video/restoration-blog-1966-lotus-elan-26r-update-8/index.shtml

For those using the queen's English instead of our poor American imitation, when Jim speaks of a

trunk

he means a boot lid and when he speaks of a

hood

he means a bonnet. Any questions?

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/segment/restoration-blog/restoration-blog-1966-lotus-elan-26r-update-9/index.shtml

This one seems to translate well.

Ross Robbins wrote:I guess I was asleep at the wheel over the holidays because Jim Hall and Jay have posted not one but two updates. Here they are:

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/more-video/restoration-blog-1966-lotus-elan-26r-update-8/index.shtml

For those using the queen's English instead of our poor American imitation, when Jim speaks of a

trunk

he means a boot lid and when he speaks of a

hood

he means a bonnet. Any questions?

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/segment/restoration-blog/restoration-blog-1966-lotus-elan-26r-update-9/index.shtml

This one seems to translate well.

Ross,
Thank you for posting. I was surprised he fabricated his own headers, since Dave Bean sells a SS 4 into 2 into 1 with a long collector that works really well. They are built by Callouette Fab of Benicia, CA.
Barry does wonderful fab work and the weld quality is very, very good on the headers he builds for Bean. Barry does not sell them retail, only through Bean. Does anything on the web page look familiar? http://www.callouettefabricators.com/capabilities.html

StressCraxx wrote:Thank you for posting. I was surprised he fabricated his own headers, since Dave Bean sells a SS 4 into 2 into 1 with a long collector that works really well. They are built by Callouette Fab of Benicia, CA.
Barry does wonderful fab work and the weld quality is very, very good on the headers he builds for Bean. Barry does not sell them retail, only through Bean. Does anything on the web page look familiar? http://www.callouettefabricators.com/capabilities.html

It is a big block 2l -