Lotus Elan

Dave Bean Water pump

PostPost by: 512BB » Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:39 am

All you people fitting removable water pump capsules in road cars are completely wasting your money, which is of course entirely your right to do. You only fit them because someone you know fitted one, or, you read about them on the internet and thought 'I will fit one of those because it will make replacing the water pump next time much easier'.

Next time being 50,000 miles later, or longer, so long as the bearing was fitted correctly in the first place, the fan belt was run at the correct tension, and the water pump was not left idle for years on end, which is exactly the same for the original water pump, and by which time the engine will need other remedial work, ie need rebuilding, so what time will you have saved? Nada!

And how many of you are EVER going to drive 50k miles in a Twin Cam powered car anyway? Not many, me thinks. No, I will continue to fit the original front cover and water pump, original dynamo, original starter motor, in fact, original everything, in all my rebuilds. You know it makes sense.

Leslie
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:29 am

Hi Leslie

While I agree with most of what you say, I think there is still a rational for a removable cartridge pump in a road or race car. Its not an absolute yes or no but something to consider along with all the other issues I have listed with the various pump suppliers

Seal failures are much more common than bearing failures if the belt is properly kept loose enough when cold. An low use engine that sits a lot is probably more likely to suffer seal failure based on time rather than km's. This is due to the sealing surfaces sticking to each other when the car is not being used for a period and then being damaged when the engine is started.

A cartridge pump can be replaced to fix a leaking seal without dismantling the engine. The cost to have this additional flexibility is relatively small when rebuilding an engine if you need a new cover and back plate


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PostPost by: Craven » Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:40 am

I’m relying on the ceramic faced ‘washer’ now supplied in all UK kits so the running surface is not a ferrous material contact. If left for years the module type can be very difficult to remove not as simple as suggested.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:16 am

Even the carbon / ceramic face can seize and cause problems. less likely than the older style carbon cast iron but still possible.

I had the same problem on a garden irrigation pump with a ceramic / carbon seal that was unused over winter where it would not start. I pulled off the fan cover and turned it over by hand and it freed it up so it could start but the seal now has a small leak :) Not a huge problem with an irrigation pump but more of a problem with a car coolant pump.

Yes module removal can be a problem but the design of the Burton module is such that it only seals on the module font face O-ring and otherwise has relatively large clearances so corrossion would have to be really bad for it not to come out. The Dave Bean module uses a similalr O ring seal arrangement to the orginal design but has jacking screws and a modified bolting arrangement so that the back plate to cover is still held in place when the bolts for the pump are removed and the pump can be pulled out using jacking screws without distourbing the cover seals.

All the designs have their plus and minus features .... original, Burton, Dave Bean and it will be intersting to see how CBR has approached it with their new version. I also have a couple of locally modified orginal covers machined to accept a removable cartridge to throw into the mix of what I have tried :)

Nothing so far is a clear winner and it all depends on your priorities and choices as which is the best way to go. Maybe one day I will write this up in more engineering detail and attempt to rank all the options

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PostPost by: Craven » Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:29 am

I’m sure almost any scenario can be envisaged to support particular point of view. Goes for many many situations.
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PostPost by: mbell » Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:11 pm

I am wondering about a front cover design with no pump but designed to connect to an electric pump. Removes the problem completely and may allow for a few other improvement in design. Probably only interesting a small group of people for specific reasons.

Planted the seed in a friend with equipment to CNC these and he likes idea but many many project infront of it.
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:56 pm

The same seal is used in the regular Ford pushrod engines without issue. I suspect the issue in the twin cam is that the bearing wears first due to the belt being too tight. This puts the shaft out of alignment and on an angle which consequently puts an edge loading on the seal causing it to fail. Corrosion is largely a non issue these days in a cherished classic properly maintained running the correct coolant.
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PostPost by: 45DCOE » Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:05 am

Hey Woody….. I just saw your post and do you still need one. I have a brand new Dave Bean pump with front and back covers. Let me know as I would have to dig for it and the invoice. Will sell for invoice cost (2 years ago so might be cheaper) and I will pay for shipping provided you ain’t in Ukraine.
Thanks
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PostPost by: fatboyoz » Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:48 am

Hi Roy,
If Woody does not want it, please give me a shout.
Cheers,
Colin.




quote="45DCOE"]Hey Woody….. I just saw your post and do you still need one. I have a brand new Dave Bean pump with front and back covers. Let me know as I would have to dig for it and the invoice. Will sell for invoice cost (2 years ago so might be cheaper) and I will pay for shipping provided you ain’t in Ukraine.
Thanks
Roy[/quote]
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PostPost by: woodcock » Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:40 pm

Too busy on many other things, just saw this - morning. received the Burton pump yesterday so..... next in line.
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PostPost by: TheKid#99 » Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:40 pm

Hi - I may actually have one, I'm rebuilding my engine and replaced my water pump with a TTR one and will have the Dave Bean one when it comes off, you may need just the cassette from Dave Bean. I have the receipt from the engine builder when the engine was done in 2004 and it states it is in fact a Dave Bean water pump.

PM if you are interested.
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PostPost by: fatboyoz » Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:20 am

Hi Roy,
You have mail.
Cheers,
Colin.




quote="45DCOE"]Hey Woody….. I just saw your post and do you still need one. I have a brand new Dave Bean pump with front and back covers. Let me know as I would have to dig for it and the invoice. Will sell for invoice cost (2 years ago so might be cheaper) and I will pay for shipping provided you ain’t in Ukraine.
Thanks
Roy[/quote]
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