Lotus Elan

French registration

PostPost by: ChrisR » Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:46 pm

I am wondering if anyone with a French registered Elan can please help me?

I am just in the process of completing the FFVE form asking for the Attestation which will enable me to register my S3 as a Vehicule de Collection in France. Most of it is straightforward and the information needed is identical to the UK registration. However, there are some details needed which are just not (or were not then) used in the UK.

If anyone with an Elan registered here could please look at their Carte Grise, I need to find out the correct information for the following:

(F2) Masse en charge maximale admissible du véhicule en service dans l’État membre d’immatriculation (PTAC en kg)

(F3) Masse en charge maximale admissible de l’ensemble en service dans l’État membre d’immatriculation (PTRA en kg)

(G1) Poids à vide national

(J3) Carrosserie

If anyone has actually gone through this process, any hints which will avoid pitfalls would be welcome!

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

Chris
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PostPost by: HCA » Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:04 pm

Elan what?
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PostPost by: snowyelan » Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:17 pm

S3.

I have an S4 so am unable to answer.

Google translates to this:
(F2) Maximum permissible laden mass of the vehicle in service in the Member State of registration (GVW in kg)

(F3) Maximum permissible laden mass of the combination in service in the Member State of registration (GCW in kg)

(G1) National curb weight

(J3) Bodywork
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PostPost by: ChrisR » Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:52 pm

Many thanks for the replies.

Its an S3 SE from 1968. Though I don't believe the figures would vary enough between the different series to bother the authorities so info from SI to S4 would help.

I don't have a problem with the language or the meaning of the words, ( I've lived here for a long time), and the bodywork will have a specific code.

The French registration doesn't tie up with the way the info is expressed in English so info from a car registered here would save a lot of time! They send the forms back if they're not correct of if there's missing info.....

Cheers.
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PostPost by: HCA » Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:58 pm

I cannot help directly as I am +2.

I would have thought the values for S4 are the same, no?

Bodywork is 2 seats dhc or 2 seats fhc.

Are you in Lotus club France? Someone on the forum could help, but I am sure someone here has an S3. If not, I can ask on CLF forum if you want.
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PostPost by: ChrisR » Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:24 pm

Thanks HCA


I am not in Lotus Club France so maybe you can ask on there, much appreciated.

My S3 is a DHC and I think answer to J3 Carrosserie (désignation nationale) is "CABR", but would like to be sure before I send that off.

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PostPost by: nmauduit » Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:49 pm

Bonsoir,

my '68 s4se carte grise says

f1 900
f2 900
g1 698
j M1
j1 vp
j3 ci
p3 es
p6 9
s1 2

hope this helps...

ps: I too have a CGC, would have much prefered a regular one but was eager to get the car on the road...
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:50 pm

Bonsoir Chris,
This is what's on my "Carte Grise" for my 1972 Elan Sprint fhc.
F2-0, F3-0, G1-0 and J3- CI.
I imagine you already know but you will also need a "Quitus Fiscal".
I did mine 10 years ago before brexit so the "Quitus Fiscal" was free at the Hotel des Impots.
There are some little shops/offices that do Carte Grise which is easier and cheap.
I've stopped importing my personal cars from UK since the brexit crap.
Good luck
Alan
Ps. Imho no advantage to normal reg doc which can be done with letter from Lotus UK.
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PostPost by: ChrisR » Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:00 pm

Many thanks both of you!

This is just what I was looking for.

I am surprised, Alan, that you have 0 for the weights!

nmauduit, thanks for that, I think i will try your figures, do you have a value for F3 please?

I thought a CGC was the way to go, the CT is only every five years instead of every two (and a lot "kinder" according to the guy who does the control technique for our regular cars) and I believe the insurance should be cheaper (less expensive..). I also understand that if you have a vehicule de collection they are less inclined to write it off should you have a serious accident.

I have the Quitus Fiscal, I have had the car (in pieces) here since well before Brexit but only just started the process of registration so had to prove it was in France before Brexit.

Thanks again.

Chris
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:18 pm

Hi Chris,
I think maybe the Quitus Fiscal needs to be less than 6 months old but i'm not sure.
I should know i've registered 6 different cars in France.
Bon chance
Alan
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:00 am

ChrisR wrote:nmauduit, thanks for that, I think i will try your figures, do you have a value for F3 please?

no, whatever I left out was empty on my CG (i.e. I can't tow a trailer with my car...)
these figures were deducted from the homologation papers I got from Lotus iirc, if important I can dig that up

as for CGC vs CG, my insurer has never asked me what kind of paperwork I had for the car, so I don't suppose this has an impact, and as for the "controle technique" this would probably vary from place to place since these cars are not so frequent, but I can't see how this would make a difference on how stringent the rules are checked (the car is either safe of unsafe), I can't say for sure (my car is certainly safer than me) - but what is sure is the restrictions that apply to CGC (no commercial use of the vehicle, that is including renting) and possibly the risk inherent to be part of a smaller pack when driving restrictions loom everywhere...
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PostPost by: Old English White » Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:43 am

Hi Chris,
Here are my numbers, for an Elan S3 1966:
(D2) ELANS3
(F1) -
(F2) 834
(F3) -
(G1) 584
(J) -
(J1) VP
(J2) -
(J3) CI
(P3) ES
(P) 9
(S1) 2
(U1) 81
(U2) 5500
(Y3) 131,00
That CG was made in July 2004. At the time, I get full paperwork on my car from factory.
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PostPost by: HCA » Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:58 am

Here you are - another variant!:

F1: blank
F2: blank
F3: blank
G1: 680
J3: CABR

Only thing to add is that my +2 has all the 'F' sections blank, with G1 at 869 and J3 at CI.
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PostPost by: ChrisR » Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:05 pm

Many thanks to all for your help.

I had assumed that the figures on the various Carte Grise would be the same for all Elans, but we all know what they say about assuming...

On reflection, and somewhat cynically perhaps, since it appears difficult to find two cars which left the factory with the same parts I suppose it would stretching it to find two with the same paperwork! :)

I will pick from all your offerings numbers that look like they will please the powers that be and submit the FFVE forms.

In the interests of future members searching for the same answers I will post again when I have a final result.

Thanks again and bonne nuit a tous.

Chris
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:58 pm

Chris,

Ideally you should ask Lotus Cars (Andy Graham) for the "Attestation d'identification pour les véhicules importés conforme à un type nation français". This is the equivalent for the modern car equivalent of the "Certificat de Conformité".

Andy Graham's email is: [email protected]

This document then needs to be accompanied by the Quitus Fiscal, the Contrôle Technique etc in your application. If you opt for the Collection status the CT will be less demanding. Having the document from the FFVE is a "nice to have" but not essential as it is a fall back solution for cases where the manufacturer has disappeared. It is useful to have your chassis number clearly displayed.

If you can get the CT done and the above, I would suggest you find a professional to help you though this (my insurance broker recommended someone who was very efficient) and the process was rubber stamped with no nonsense.

I can provide the info requested for the S2 but it is absolutely no use to you as you will need the vital "Attestation" relating to your car.

Andrew
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