Lotus Elan

Wheel spinner LH or RH?

PostPost by: ez9 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:42 am

Looking at my Elan S3 '67 close to my cousin Elan S4 looking for difference we notice a strange thing.

On mine S3 the right wheels have a Right wheel spinner (clockwise) and the left wheels have a left wheel spinner (anticlockwise) in the S4 the wheel spinner are exactly installed in the opposite way.

What was the original configuration? is it possible this difference between S3 and S4 or someone have inverted the Wheel hub?

Which one is the correct configuration?
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PostPost by: Craven » Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:56 am

Lots on this site about this. Lotus unusually used the unconventional way around to most knock on spinners. Your S3 right with right hand spinner is the Lotus way.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:56 pm

The Lotus outside contact on the wheel spinners reverses the conventional (i.e. MG Jag Triumph) inside contact spinners. Thus the direction on each side is swapped hence many people get it wrong. :shock: RTFM is recommended

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PostPost by: Mazzini » Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:34 pm

rgh0 wrote:The Lotus outside contact on the wheel spinners reverses the conventional (i.e. MG Jag Triumph) inside contact spinners. Thus the direction on each side is swapped hence many people get it wrong. :shock: RTFM is recommended

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PostPost by: ez9 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:13 pm

Thanks for your answers, I also found this post that clarified me on that

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=33180&start=15
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PostPost by: Elan 1600 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:19 pm

The hub should have been marked with green paint for the left and red paint for the right, viewed from the cockpit.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:03 am

When i was visiting my family in New Zealand several years ago i went to a classic car show Paraparaumu.
I had a chat with a Kiwi who had rebuilt his +2S Elan and made a super job of it BUT he had put the Spinners on the wrong side. When i pointed out his mistake and said he should look at the other Elans at the show he stopped talking.
Lotus Spinners right side righthand thread and left side lefthand thread.
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PostPost by: Andy8421 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:09 am

I posted at some length on here on this issue a few years back. I did quite a bit of looking around the web on the subject, and If you are looking for some light amusement, the Cobra guys can’t get their head around this issue at all.

I think a lot of it comes from using hubs that have jag parentage and RW spinners (which tighten one way) with Halibrand style wheels with Lotus style spinners (that tighten the other). There are any number of threads on how to safety wire the spinner on your Cobra - presumably because the spinners keep falling off as they have them on the wrong side of the car.

I did come across a wheel manufacturer selling Cobra repro wheels that got it wrong on their website as well.
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PostPost by: HCA » Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:14 am

Elan 1600 wrote:The hub should have been marked with green paint for the left and red paint for the right, viewed from the cockpit.


Are you sure? The normal [aviation and marine] convention is green for right and red for left... But, yes, it is Lotus.. :D
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PostPost by: oldelanman » Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:27 am

Elan 1600 wrote:The hub should have been marked with green paint for the left and red paint for the right, viewed from the cockpit.


That's not correct.

The hubs should be painted GREEN for RIGHT and RED for LEFT as per marine convention noted by Hal.

scan_20220830_090504.jpg and
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PostPost by: cliveyboy » Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:28 am

I think Lotus have it right as I have never had any problems
My theory is when you apply the brakes the brake disc, hub and wheel are all acting as one unit because they are either bolted or drive pinned together. The wheel spinner however is separate and so can do its own thing rotation wise. When a car brakes hard the spinner wants to continue spinning. If that rotation means it is always wanting to tighten up then that is a positive thing.

The counter argument to that is when driving you are doing the exact opposite. You are rotating the wheel and the spinner also has to rotate but is being rotated by a thread which is trying to undo.

So an argument would be:- If you constantly have the rear spinners coming loose on a Lotus (they are the ones most likely as they are driven) then the spinners are coming undone from acceleration and the thread handing is wrong. If the spinners dont come loose then the action of braking is trying to tighten them up and the thread handing is correct.
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PostPost by: Andy8421 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:53 pm

cliveyboy wrote:I think Lotus have it right as I have never had any problems
My theory is when you apply the brakes the brake disc, hub and wheel are all acting as one unit because they are either bolted or drive pinned together. The wheel spinner however is separate and so can do its own thing rotation wise. When a car brakes hard the spinner wants to continue spinning. If that rotation means it is always wanting to tighten up then that is a positive thing.

The counter argument to that is when driving you are doing the exact opposite. You are rotating the wheel and the spinner also has to rotate but is being rotated by a thread which is trying to undo.

So an argument would be:- If you constantly have the rear spinners coming loose on a Lotus (they are the ones most likely as they are driven) then the spinners are coming undone from acceleration and the thread handing is wrong. If the spinners dont come loose then the action of braking is trying to tighten them up and the thread handing is correct.

Clive,

While that is an interesting theory, I am afraid it is not the reason for the direction of tightening on wheel spinners. If you Google ‘mechanical precession’ there are a number of clever animations and also a good Wikipedia page that come up. They explain the physics behind the phenomenon. The primary diver is whether the spinner is a male or female cone where it grips the wheel. Rudge/Whitworth spinners are female, Lotus male. It is the epicyclic / precession effect that creates the tightening loosening action.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:18 pm

Yes dont drive to far backwards with knock on wheels :D

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PostPost by: RichardHawkins » Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:19 pm

Andy,

Once again your knowledge of mechanical engineering impresses me. Epicyclic precession is spot on.

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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:33 pm

Mazzini wrote:
rgh0 wrote:The Lotus outside contact on the wheel spinners reverses the conventional (i.e. MG Jag Triumph) inside contact spinners. Thus the direction on each side is swapped hence many people get it wrong. :shock: RTFM is recommended

cheers
Rohan


RTFM made me laugh


But which version of RTFM? :lol:
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