Lotus Elan

Jim Clark's first Elan 997 NUR could be yours!

PostPost by: deryck » Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:15 pm

It seams to me that anybody selling this car needs to make it clear to any prospective buyer
that the car is nothing more than a replica, and has no connection to JC other than the VIN plate!
Otherwise this could be a trading standards matter?
Surely the current seller knows the full history?
I could not imagine parting with life changing money only to find out you have brought a car that
is not what is advertised by seemingly a respectable dealer, and has a value of around a tenth of the current asking price if your lucky..

The more you think about it the more distressing it becomes!!
deryck
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Location: UK

PostPost by: Spyder fan » Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:26 pm

deryck wrote:It seams to me that anybody selling this car needs to make it clear to any prospective buyer
that the car is nothing more than a replica, and has no connection to JC other than the VIN plate!
Otherwise this could be a trading standards matter?
Surely the current seller knows the full history?
I could not imagine parting with life changing money only to find out you have brought a car that
is not what is advertised by seemingly a respectable dealer, and has a value of around a tenth of the current asking price if your lucky..

The more you think about it the more distressing it becomes!!

Deryck,
I couldn’t agree more, I do like to see the car at events because it is a very nice S1 Elan. The Jim Clark connection is very tenuous in that it’s very unlikely that his physical form made contact with any part of the car as it exists. Therefore it is no more than a built up car to me, albeit a very nice one. I really don’t personally put any premium on objects that were owned or used by celebrities, so my personal valuation of the car is that it’s worth 45-55k.

If I were to be tempted by a celebrity owner/user car then it would have to be the +2 that was used by Ronnie Peterson when he drove for Lotus that is owned by a regular attendant of Malcolm Ricketts annual charity BBQ event. The car is very original and has proper provenance.
Kindest regards

Alan Thomas
User avatar
Spyder fan
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2759
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Kent country & Sussex seaside UK

PostPost by: HCA » Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:35 pm

I agree with your non-sentiments of celebrity ownership - but maybe I am biased as I was hit badly some years back when a certain Lotus Cortina came up for auction with low mileage, being the car used to rekky the countryside before the Great Train Robbery.

I asked a forum at the time what it might go for. A few replies came back that 35k would be a good price. This was 5k more than my budget at the time, but what the heck I thought.

I did not even get to bid! It opened at 40k and ended at 99k.... :lol:
Hal Adams

Evora - the poser
Elan +2 - keeps me busy
Macan - hers
Felicia Pickup - my favourite
Peugeot 207 E85 converted - to battle inflation
User avatar
HCA
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 869
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: Slowtus » Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:49 pm

deryck wrote:It seams to me that anybody selling this car needs to make it clear to any prospective buyer
that the car is nothing more than a replica, and has no connection to JC other than the VIN plate!


It seems to me that any prospective buyer - given the provenance of the car, alleged or otherwise - would and should verify the claims and probably has a good idea of the car anyway.

Our opinions on this car are just that - opinions.
Slowtus
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 401
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Canada

PostPost by: steveh » Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:22 am

Slowtus wrote:
deryck wrote:It seams to me that anybody selling this car needs to make it clear to any prospective buyer
that the car is nothing more than a replica, and has no connection to JC other than the VIN plate!


It seems to me that any prospective buyer - given the provenance of the car, alleged or otherwise - would and should verify the claims and probably has a good idea of the car anyway.

Our opinions on this car are just that - opinions.


Not for me, i see the list of non original Jim Clark replacement parts as facts not opinions.
50/0024
steveh
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Location: uk

PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:49 am

I think people are talking about opinions on what the car is worth not opinions on the extent of the rebuilding required to resurrect the car which has been extensive.

The car is worth at the time what the successful buyer will pay for it. Any other "value" is an opinion. :D

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 8326
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: steveh » Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:50 pm

My ref Rohan is as Deryck's , to it's provenance / identity ,if its had a different body,chassis ,engine and gearbox then it's not JC's car in reality-- the values are not of too much interest to me .
Does anyone know why DVLA have the date of first registration as May 1999 ?.

Regards Steve
50/0024
steveh
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Location: uk

PostPost by: Slowtus » Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:45 pm

I truly don't care if ACBC, Jim Clark and, let's throw in a few more Lotus related 'celebrities' Innes Ireland, Stirling Moss, Graham Hill etc etc ALL owned/drove this car.

I would only be interested in the CURRENT condition of the car, with just a bit of blustery barroom braggadocio when the provenance comes up, I do that already with my '54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 convertible..."yes, this is the same car that the Queen used when in the Bahamas...might even be THE car. I haven't actually checked" :D :D

As Bruce Patrick often remarked, 'it's all about the car'
Slowtus
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 401
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Canada

PostPost by: deryck » Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:33 pm

you might be interested if you had just parted with 475K!
deryck
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Location: UK

PostPost by: Slowtus » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:58 pm

deryck wrote:you might be interested if you had just parted with 475K!


A fool and his money...

Hey spend what you want on what you want, me, I would rather give the thing the full wellie rather than snuggle up to it or gaze fondly through the "hermetically" sealed pod it will now live in. I just hope it doesn't leak TOO much oil on the floor :D
Slowtus
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 401
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Canada

PostPost by: Roland » Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:39 am

I am not really certain that the extent of rebuilding is key here. There are some pretty valuable race cars around that have been crashed rebuilt and likely have virtually no original components.

It’s value is what someone is prepared to pay. Are they fools to pay large amount of money here? Maybe not, I think the motor racing memorabilia/car market is probably growing. If you pay the average of what say three key experts advise for this car then as an investment over 10 years it may make sense.
Roland
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Aug 2019
Location: Aberdeen

PostPost by: elanfan1 » Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:13 am

Another thing I don’t understand about this car is how the DVLA allowed it to retain its identity and registration number. I don’t have the details to hand but there’s a points based system which allocates a certain number of points for having the original body, original chassis, original engine gearbox differential and suspension. It has none of these so I cannot see how it possibly was allowed to retain the ID. If the car was created prior to the points system being introduced then maybe. Realistically there’s not a molecule of JC’s DNA in or on the car. Folk who refer to it as ‘Jimmys car’ are imho deluded.
Steve

Silence is Guildern; Duct Tape is Silver
User avatar
elanfan1
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2459
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Location: Cardiff in Welsh Wales

PostPost by: steveh » Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:21 am

elanfan1 wrote:Another thing I don’t understand about this car is how the DVLA allowed it to retain its identity and registration number..


Steve you have just said what most are thinking but dare not or don't want to say, sure it looks a nice car but it's a can of worms.
I hope the numbers on the car and the V5c match the story.
That's why i pointed out the date of first registration with dvla as 1999, when it was restored.

Jaguar is another of my interests , the JDHT issue certificates of provenance just like Lotus Archives , in the absence of a V5 the JDHT will not reveal the engine, chassis numbers etc if they are missing or just from a reg number, ie they will not help recreate a vehicle from an individual part.
997nur.PNG and


Steve
50/0024
steveh
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Location: uk

PostPost by: elanfan1 » Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:08 pm

Another thing, assuming the car was insured when it was written off the remains of the car belong to the insurers who you can be sure would have put a write off marker on the car meaning it shouldn’t be rebuilt and would not have entertained selling any of it except for parts ONLY! Would be interesting if the insurers turned up and laid claim to it.

We all know elans are ultimately rebuildable but when I tried to purchase what was left of a car that burned out on me from the insurers they would not entertain it (even though I was working for them at the time!). The remains were categorised for destruction/dismantling and the DVLA nor insurers would reconsider the category.
Steve

Silence is Guildern; Duct Tape is Silver
User avatar
elanfan1
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2459
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Location: Cardiff in Welsh Wales

PostPost by: ROADRUNNER » Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:45 pm

rgh0 wrote:I think people are talking about opinions on what the car is worth not opinions on the extent of the rebuilding required to resurrect the car which has been extensive.

The car is worth at the time what the successful buyer will pay for it. Any other "value" is an opinion. :D

cheers
Rohan


I agree 100% Rohan. I know the car well, having shot it both for GF and for the current 'Octane' feature. There are some comments being made on this thread that, imo, have no place on a public forum for like-minded enthusiasts.
ROADRUNNER
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 70
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
PreviousNext

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests