Lotus Elan

Tremec TKX new 5 speed

PostPost by: joesailor » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:51 pm

Tremex now has a new very compact 5 speed , its available in Ford toploader bolt pattern, does anyone know what the bolt pattern on the bellhousing is on our Elan 4 speed boxes? Transmission is 24.07 inches long and shifter is located 16.75 behind bell or 19.5 behind bell but its possible to modify to put shifter between those 2 positions.
Gear ratios are: Wide
3.27, 1.98, 1.34, 1.00, 0.72

Close
2.87, 1.89, 1.28, 1.00, 0.81 or 0.68
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:06 pm

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PostPost by: joesailor » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:14 pm

OK I will contact them and post what they say.
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:32 pm

You could do good with a visit to Steve at Twin Cam Sportscars in Sarasota
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PostPost by: greg40green » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:43 pm

I've followed many discussions regards the promise of a 5 speed box that can be simply bolted into an Elan as a direct replacement for many years.
Still waiting !?

I don't known the details but was there not a 5 speed box produced for rallying , road sport events back in the late 60's , 70's that fitted into the Ford 3 rail box cast iron housing ?

If this is correct, surely there are enough people seeking this box to have it reproduced.
For aesthetic reasons I'd rather have a 5 speed built in a Ford 3 rail cast iron or aluminium casing rather than having to modify my chassis , centre console tunnel etc.

Does anyone have any details re this 5 speed box ?
Last edited by greg40green on Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: mbell » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:56 pm

greg40green wrote:Does anyone have any details re this 5 speed box ?


My memory of it being previous mentioned here was it was a dog box for racing and possibly had 1.0 ratio on 5th but I can't remember.

joesailor wrote:does anyone know what the bolt pattern on the bellhousing is on our Elan 4 speed boxes


I don't but if this is bolt in with the right bell housing, I suspect a bell housing or other solution (mount plate) will become available. If not it could probably be made to happen, if there was interest I know someone who might be interested in doing something.

Would be good to compare the measurements against the 4 speed:
https://www.holley.com/blog/post/inside ... e_tko_t56/
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
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PostPost by: elans3 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:31 pm

Can't remember one from back in the day being built into a 3 rail casing, and I should have heard about it as I started rallying Fords in 1974, (Escort Mexico's & TC's), and was driving fast Fords from 1970.
The only (pre-single rail) five speed box that the Ford Works teams used in the Escorts was the ZF unit, They always seemed to rattle like a can of marbles.
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PostPost by: Craven » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:16 pm

There was this one back in 1967. I think it used the reverse gear position for the fifth gear.
5-speed.jpg
5-speed.jpg (148.21 KiB) Viewed 722 times
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PostPost by: elans3 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:08 am

Well, you learn something new every day. Of course Wooler went out of business decades ago, and having never heard of this box before, I wonder how many were actually made ?
Also note that it says "non-synchro"
Wooler were famed in the 60's & 70's for their remote change extension, and I actually had one in an Anglia , but had never heard of the gearbox before. Burton Performance are still marketing a very similar remote extension.
https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/20 ... -extension.
https://www.burtonpower.com/aluminium-r ... 2e102.html

Just found this page that goes back to last year. Looks like they were only ever made for small capacity (up to 1300cc) engines, see the comments
https://www.tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154500
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:44 am

I've driven and Elan with the Wooler/Hewland 5 speed 2000e conversion, its a 1:! 5th box, with straight cut gears and dog selection s, so not a road use option. It was also very notch to use and fragile. MKF Engineering were making a modern improved version, there was thread one it here on the forum. The chap at MKF ended up going to prison for making guns!!! Clearly a skilled machinist!

Potentially Kelvedon were selling them.

Re the ZF S5 18/3 which was fitted to many cars of the early seventies and should have been in the Elan Plus 2 I think. This box can be found in the Sunbeam Lotus, Maserati Twin Turbo, some Fiats and the Alfa Montreal plus others. Importantly, it was fitted to works Escorts for rallying so bellhousings are available. There are manufacturers close ratio gear sets which are not required for road use.

Most used is the version used in the Maserati is probably the most available since the Maseratis rusted away, however, that box has the worst ratios. The gears are pressed onto the laygear assembly and can be changed however. Another option is one from an Alfa Montreal which has 2.95:1 first gear but fifth is 0.87:1 which is not great as an overdrive.
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PostPost by: Vic » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:53 am

The Bell housing for the TKX would be the same to fit a Tremec T5 (Ford application) as discussed elsewhere. I've been considering a TKX for my project. I have a T5 for a trial fit and it does fit (in a TTR 26R chassis), although the square edges of the top cover are tight. The rounded case of the TKX should have more clearance on top. The bell housing I'm likely going to use is: https://www.holley.com/products/drivetr ... ts/RM-4055 this is for a Ford 2.3 (Mustang SVO, Merkur XR4Ti, etc.) so the top two holes will need to be drilled to match a Kent block.
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:21 am

In reply to Vaughan...The ZF S5 18/3 gearbox is remanufactured in two locations to my knowledge (no affiliation):

Elite Transmissions in Stoke on Trent (Staffs)
Holinger in Kilsyth (Victoria) - listed as the "HZF"

In my idle hours I have had a closer look and from what I could understand, the tail of the gearbox is a fraction shorter and the lever mechanism would need to be machined up.

I asked Elite Transmissions at Race Retro 2 years ago and they confirmed that this was easy to do. The lever mechanism would be about 90mm back from the usual Elan position (from what I can see). Both firms provide PDF details of the transmissions, but you need to be very patient to find this on Elite's website.

It can be ordered with various ratios (FIA spec is I believe a 2.3 first gear and 1.0 5th gear) and in dog or helical cut format. Holinger list the max torque for the box as 450 NM (335 lb/ft) which seems quite useful.

The main issue I could see is that this gearbox weighs in at about 33kg which is about 13 kg heavier than the 2000E box.

I have not checked the compatibility of this gearbox with the LTC, Zetec, Duratec etc but Elite Transmissions did suggest that there are wonderful people in Wales who make all sorts of bellhousings.

Potential purchasers should obviously do all the checking of the details themselves!

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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:55 am

I just finished up installing a T5 with the Modern Driveline , aka, MDL, tailshaft and shifter, using
the RWDMotorsport bellhousing. Space for the box is not a problem, albeit it's a bit tight but
I found the shifter area is tight against the upper flange of the frame, if one is trying to achieve the
same driveshaft angle as stock. I'm not sure the TKX box will be an advantage, if those are the
only ratios available. With the T5, I've got virtually the same ratios, 1 through 4, as a semi close
box, with a .73 5th. The close ratio set the OP posted looks good (to me) but .68 5th will be a bit
too tall, if running a stock motor, imho.

Unfortunately, this is not a bolt in procedure. You have to engineer a clutch arrangement and
index the bellhousing to the flywheel. Driveshaft length is exactly the same but a 28 spline yoke
is required.

The Lotus 5 speed box is closer to a bolt in process.

edit: no chassis mods were required with the T5. I chose to use GPS to drive my oem speedometer
so the tailshaft speedo hole just needed a plug.
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:05 pm

gjz30075 wrote:I just finished up installing a T5 with the Modern Driveline , aka, MDL, tailshaft and shifter, using
the RWDMotorsport bellhousing. Space for the box is not a problem, albeit it's a bit tight but
I found the shifter area is tight against the upper flange of the frame, if one is trying to achieve the
same driveshaft angle as stock. I'm not sure the TKX box will be an advantage, if those are the
only ratios available. With the T5, I've got virtually the same ratios, 1 through 4, as a semi close
box, with a .73 5th. The close ratio set the OP posted looks good (to me) but .68 5th will be a bit
too tall, if running a stock motor, imho.

Unfortunately, this is not a bolt in procedure. You have to engineer a clutch arrangement and
index the bellhousing to the flywheel. Driveshaft length is exactly the same but a 28 spline yoke
is required.

The Lotus 5 speed box is closer to a bolt in process.

edit: no chassis mods were required with the T5. I chose to use GPS to drive my oem speedometer
so the tailshaft speedo hole just needed a plug.


Quite interesting (I understand this was fitted in a 2 seater)... Any photo (esp. gearbox location, possibly with a measurement of the difference from the stock location) ? from the specs I find the CR quite useful, the version with the more compact ratios scale as you mention.

Any side comment appreciated.
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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:05 pm

Nick, the best pics I have that shows anything significant is the shifter location. The shot with no
shifter is of an S10 tailshaft but it shows where the shifter will end up, using the RWD bellhousing.
The shot with the stick is with the MDL tailshaft and shifter. They make their own tailshaft, identical
to the S10 except it uses the Ford pattern for the shifter, ie, the S10 (GM) shifter is mostly square and
the Ford is rectangular. I wanted this because there's bigger selection of shifters on the market
in the Ford line, it seems, and,,,,,I wanted/needed the MDL shifter because it's constructed to be more
forward than a standard Ford T5 shifter. Also, it;s the only shifter that fits their tailshaft, AND, it's the
lowest I found amongst all the aftermarket T5 Ford shifters. I needed this to get the tailshaft as
high as possible to keep the engine on the same angle as stock. Currently, it's about 2 degrees
more slant back than stock. I can't go any higher as you can see because the shifter is nearly up
against the frame.

So, the T5 fits tightly and with no mods needed but it's really the tailshaft that's the issue. It's fat.
I really need to get the car up high to get some good underside pictures.

I hope CABC26 doesn't mind but the pic of the T5 with the MDL tailshaft and shifter on the floor
is his.
Attachments
t5stuff7.JPG and
SAM_4553.JPG and
SAM_4526.JPG and
SAM_4184.JPG and
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