Lotus Elan

Provenance....

PostPost by: Andy8421 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:51 am

While it may not be true now where competition cars are designed as integrated systems, the definition of 'originality' for a historic competition car is very difficult to pin down. In period, teams would regularly swap parts between cars, modify on the fly, anything to gain an edge for the next race. Jim Clark's car from last weekend could be a donor of engine, gearbox, and whatever else was required to get another car running for next weekend. Unless the car was pushed off the winner's podium into a museum, it is unlikely to be original.
It is worth reading about the litigation around 'Old number one' - a Bentley that throughout its competition life was rebuilt many times, with owners now owning cars containing parts that at one time were part of the original car all claiming they own 'Old number one'.

It is also difficult to identify a particular car. In the 60s, Ford had a smaller number of registrations than the number of rally Escorts they were running. When a car left the completion department for a rally, a car was fitted with whatever plate was around. A publication at the time (Motoring News?) had pictures one weekend when two works Escorts were running with the same registration.
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PostPost by: mark030358 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:07 am

Andy8421 wrote:While it may not be true now where competition cars are designed as integrated systems, the definition of 'originality' for a historic competition car is very difficult to pin down. In period, teams would regularly swap parts between cars, modify on the fly, anything to gain an edge for the next race. Jim Clark's car from last weekend could be a donor of engine, gearbox, and whatever else was required to get another car running for next weekend. Unless the car was pushed off the winner's podium into a museum, it is unlikely to be original.
It is worth reading about the litigation around 'Old number one' - a Bentley that throughout its competition life was rebuilt many times, with owners now owning cars containing parts that at one time were part of the original car all claiming they own 'Old number one'.

It is also difficult to identify a particular car. In the 60s, Ford had a smaller number of registrations than the number of rally Escorts they were running. When a car left the completion department for a rally, a car was fitted with whatever plate was around. A publication at the time (Motoring News?) had pictures one weekend when two works Escorts were running with the same registration.


Cheers Andy,
That?s a spot on explanation for me. TBH Idid know about the Bentley but had forgot about it.
Thanks
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PostPost by: jimj » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:40 am

An excellent example is MG K3s. I think 33 were built and one, in particular, had its chassis replaced after an accident in period, I think in `34 or `35. Someone bought the bent chassis and built up another car from new parts, available at the time. Now with K3 values around ?500k, potential buyers know all about these 2 cars and the value of both is diminished hugely. The original car has continuous provenance, much of it racing in the 30s, and is surely not the only one to have had a replacement chassis and is as good a car as any other might be. Just the fact that another car exists running its original chassis affects its value.
Of course, in these more rarified values an MG K3 is only worth so much because people will pay it, in isolation a car can`t be worth as much as a decent house.
You could ask how an Elan can be twice the value of an MX5 which, objectively, is a much "better" car.
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PostPost by: trw99 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:50 pm

Whilst I sympathise with the views that it matters not who has owned a road car previously, the fact is the market now likes provenance and will pay for it.

If full provenance is proven by the requisite paperwork and is added to with supporting bills of work carried out, photographs and other ephemera connected to the car and on top of that, the car is in as near original condition as it might reasonably be, then the market will often pay a premium for that. Should part of that provenance include ownership by a recognised name, then that too can add a premium.

In fact, probably as much of a premium as genuine barn-find cars seem to attract! (I saw an advert stating that a vintage car had been barn-found twice; as if it that added extra magic to it!).

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PostPost by: Slowtus » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:08 pm

trw99 wrote:Should part of that provenance include ownership by a recognised name, then that too can add a premium.

Tim


The Stones were ahead of their time in recognizing the appetite of some for such desperate association when they released "Star ahem Star".

As I said earlier, I don't care if the ashes of Clark, Chapman and Senna were ground small and mixed into the gel coat of a Lotus, it would not increase the value one iota for me.

Unless it was yellow, I am partial to yellow Lotus and would probably pay a little more :D
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PostPost by: Bill » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:13 am

Tim and all.

How about the provenance of one ownership since new? I really dont believe in that - other than bragging rites perhaps.

Its been 56 years since I purchased 26/0538 from the factory (sight unseen|) and had it shipped to Vancouver.

I cant drive it today 'tho - there is 18 inches of snow on our Island today!

However; I do not mind being addressed by my (famous name?) -- WILD BILL of Sibell Bay (Esq?) :lol:

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