Lotus Elan

trying to help a friend

PostPost by: redcarandco » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:47 am

A french friend of mine just able to say "coca cola" in english has asked me if someone can help ...He is intended to buy a supposed elan 26 R Chassis n?26 S2 25 with plate n?DGC 126 C car is for sale on race car direct for sale Can somebody gives an idea if car is what owner says ? Thanks in advance
Roger
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:07 am

The ultimate Elan minefield!

First, he must ask the seller if he is selling the car as a genuine 26R. The car is advertised as having been 'built up in 2000 to the latest 26R specifications' which to me, means it's a replica.

Second, there is no mention in the advert that the car is a genuine 26R. There is no mention of the history of the car, who raced it and where / when. Provenance is EVERYTHING with these cars, and if it was genuine, then there would be at least be some mention of the history. He needs to ask the seller about the DOCUMENTED history of the car.

Third, there is no trace of DGC126C on the UK DVLA database. If the car has been away from the UK for a long time then that's what you would expect, but why does it still have the registration number on the car?

Finally, the authority and registrar for the 26R cars is Tony Thompson from TTR. He will let your friend know if the car is a recognised 'original' 26R or not. Even if the car has an original 26R chassis number, if the car is seen as a replica, then it will always be seen as that.

It's a great looking car, but the difference between a real 26R and a replica is about ?150,000. A replica can be built very easily to look and drive exactly the same as the genuine car.

Mark
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PostPost by: elanfan1 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:53 am

Of the near 100 built there are only 300 or so left - so the odds that it is genuine are 1 in 3. In other words tread very carefully indeed.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:42 am

The car is certainly a "replica" as the only thing original left is a claim to the chassis number based on the tortuous history with lots of gaps listed .

Even that claim is disputed as i am sure I have seen other people claiming they have 26- S2 - 25 chassis number.

As a replica 26R it costs about the asking price to build one from scratch if you pay others to do the work. So if your friend is interested in historic racing an Elan and it can get entry to the events he wants to race in its not a bad buy assuming that the race build has been done to top quality standards

If your friend is after a "genuine" 26R as an investment its is something to be very wary of

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: pharriso » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:06 pm

Phil Harrison
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PostPost by: redcarandco » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:22 pm

Dear all of you I am very happy to hear all these opinions and I am not far from being in same line...but to be complete I must add some little things...My friend is not trying to make an investment and his only goal is to race.... any car he will buy.. .what he is already doing succesfully with a rear engined german car......I am going to try to explain him that pleasure is the same in racing a well prepared "non26 R" elan ...I am not sure he is a lotus fan as we are all in this forum he is just a racer who would like to try to play with an other toy...and perhaps is he tired of being overtaken by these bloo....small things...Anyway He will do it as he will but I shall explain him(and translate) all posts...and once again many thanks to exist and to be there....
Roger
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PostPost by: Davidb » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:41 pm

"We are pleased to offer for sale this gorgeous and very quick RHD Lotus Elan S2 which was bought by the current owner in 2000 and was subsequently completely build-up to the latest 26R specification. "
This opening paragraph of the advert would seem to answer the question, or at least, give the seller a legal way out...

It has a lot of good parts on it and should be a lot of fun!
'65 S2 4844
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:45 am

redcarandco wrote:Dear all of you I am very happy to hear all these opinions and I am not far from being in same line...but to be complete I must add some little things...My friend is not trying to make an investment and his only goal is to race.... any car he will buy.. .what he is already doing succesfully with a rear engined german car......I am going to try to explain him that pleasure is the same in racing a well prepared "non26 R" elan ...I am not sure he is a lotus fan as we are all in this forum he is just a racer who would like to try to play with an other toy...and perhaps is he tired of being overtaken by these bloo....small things...Anyway He will do it as he will but I shall explain him(and translate) all posts...and once again many thanks to exist and to be there....
Roger


For racing it seems to have all the right bits, and Smirthwaite is a very good name for race engines over here. If the car is fresh, then ?85k seems to be pretty good value for a 26R replica. Have some of the descriptions changed on the advert in the past couple of days, because it's not now claiming to be a 26R !!

It would be worth while him finding out what sort of shell the car has (standard or lightweight) and / or how much it weighs.
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PostPost by: redcarandco » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:38 am

When we are gone to have a look at the car my friend knowing lotuses as well as he speaks english asked me to go with him ... I must add I raced "against" this car for years ( I have beat it several times...)but it took strong battle as brothers in lotus can have....h? h? ....so I had the opportunity (what never happened before) to inspect it and must say I am now much more proud to be as fast as it was...It is a very good race car(welldriven too) and all necessary parts are there even very light body coming from TTR (I suppose) We were once controled for weight in dijon and it was 610 kg but fuel tank is ATL 60 liters (Truck weight) the only difference with mine is that I have all the openings lightweight doors boot and bonnet and a small alloy tank 40 liters )and it has not So I have explained all these parameters to my friend and as his goal is just to have funny races with us........But any way I have once again found all the friendship and clever advices living in this forum .....Many many thanks to all very best regards
Roger
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:53 am

Hi Roger
I wish I had you racing against me here in Australia in my production sports car class--- to many rear engine German cars and I am the only Elan.

But I still have lots of fun even if the class rules don't allow all the 26R style lightweight developments. This does not stop many people doing similar weight reduction to their Porsche and MG and Corvettes :roll:

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: theelanman » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:09 am

Elanintheforest wrote:Have some of the descriptions changed on the advert in the past couple of days, because it's not now claiming to be a 26R !!


????

Ive just had a look at the ad and at the top it starts....(in bold)

We are pleased to offer for sale this gorgeous and very quick RHD Lotus Elan S2 which was bought by the current owner in 2000 and was subsequently completely build-up to the latest 26R specification.

:mrgreen:

and at the bottom......its seems to describe Triggers brush....(only fools and horses....its all original having had 4 new heads and 11 new handles)

History:

Chassis 26-S2-25 ex-Dieter Mohr

1965 : Mohr purchases the car directly from Lotus. Delivery by Mr Roger Putnam (sales director).

Mohr races the car in various races.

1966 : 1000km Nurb?rgring

1968 : Sold to a GI soldier (name unknown).

1968 : Sold to Mr Houven (Dusseldorf) who raced the car.

1969 : Parts of the car appear with Mr Sobek Mattern (Technokraft) who build up a Gp5 Elan racer using 2 Elans as donor cars. Various races (a.o. Hockenheim).

1980 : Car sold to Hubertus Huppauf.

1984 : Sold to J?rgen H?nle (Bodensee) who started a restoration (not finished).

1989 : Sold to Horst Auer (Dortmund) who continues with the restoration using a new body and chassis.

2000 : Sold to current owner who finishes the restoration and does the race preparation.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:19 am

Yes some interesting and subtle changes to the ad to avoid any direct claim to 26R-S2-25 chassis number with the dropping of the R from the chassis number listed?

Like i said its looks like good value as a replica historic racer. I wish i could afford to buy it and keep it in Europe to come and race in the summer there (I dream a lot hahaha) . It would not be eligible to historic race here in Australia as replicas are not allowed like in Europe!!

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:23 pm

A minor nit about the rear brakes. The advertisement states original "alu" calipers on magnesium uprights, presumably indicating the rear. The photo shows standard Elan/+2 cast iron calipers, not alloy NR calipers.
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PostPost by: redcarandco » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:18 pm

Dear Rohan it could indeed be fun to add some elan in your races but as I understand they have killed the only real advantage of racing an Elan ....forcing them to have original weight....Here in Europe we just have to be in accordance with FIA homologation sheets (127 for S1 and 2 and 527 for S3 and 4) and annexe J of year of car so an Elan S1 or2 can goes to 585 kg and S 3 or 4... 690 kg ...but but travel to Australia is a little bit expensive and I do hate flying....(my father said: " when ship sinks it is still possible to learn to swim...when plane falls it is too late to learn to fly....)And to answer to CBUEB 1171 there is a mesh in photos coming from numerous differents adverts....I have seen the car and it has well the parts the seller says EA magnesium rear uprights are well there and correct FIA rear calipers too....
Best regards
Roger
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PostPost by: redcarandco » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:27 pm

And I forgot to say FIA correct rear calipers are cast iron with unefficient handbrake system fitted....
Roger
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