Lotus Elan

my Elan SPRINT refurbishment by LOG36 ??

PostPost by: pharriso » Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:03 pm

I really can't see how it matters! Install it the other way around so it does not interfere... I promise not to tell anyone :oops:
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PostPost by: tedtaylor » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:50 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I left it as is, but used a small rasp file to file down the joint housing/holder just a smidge, enough to allow for another couple degrees of movement to that side. I don't think I encouraged a "weak link" spot since the material housing is quite robust. Upon completion, i fed the completed drive shaft in the central tunnel from the vacant rear area. Exposing the passenger side access plug, i was able to feed the yoke into the transmission (with healthy amount of grease). This was a two man job, but i was able to do it myself. Once positioned in place, and being able to better leverage the prop shaft forward from below (rear of car).
delay-007.jpg and

Next step is to make the dreaded list of bolts/nuts/washer fasteners (taken from the shop manual, and BB's manual) to facilitate the rest of the rear end assembly.
TED
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PostPost by: tedtaylor » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:28 pm

Well got my list together of all the fasteners (nuts, bolts, etc.) needed to complete reassembly of the rear suspension. I located a Fastenal store a few miles away. They are open business hours on weekdays only. Upon entering the store, i quickly found out that they do NOT stock every size available! Unfortunately all my specifications require UNF thread and I decided on grade 5 stock (at the recommendation of my very experienced mechanic). I was hoping to leave the store with everything i needed to get back into the garage and dig into finishing the project, only to find that i had to special order it all. Very frustrating, but I guess I understand it?
So although they promise a day or two turnaround, i won't be able to get back to the store until the middle of next week due to a sailing trip we have planned.
More next week! :D
TED
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PostPost by: tedtaylor » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:06 pm

My fasteners came in, so back to work. Because I removed the after-market roll bar, I had to replace the long bolts with shorter ones. Replaced the two rear body to frame bolts and replaced the seat belt bolts. Finally put the interior back together again (center console, seats, carpets, etc.). Now it only needs a good cleaning and Armor-all treatment to make it look like new!
Now to get underneath and put that rear final drive/rear suspension components back together again.
Up next!
TED
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:57 pm

Ted, I have every expectation that you will have your Sprint at LOG36! I'm counting on it :D
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PostPost by: tedtaylor » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:27 pm

Worked early in the day before the real hot, humid, heat forced me out of the garage. Got a lot done today!
diff-005.jpg and

Mounted rear differential with little difficulty. The strengthening bar across the top was quite fiddly getting the middle securing bolt into the top differential case mounting hole, but little by little, it tightened up. I fed the diff mounting bolts in from the top trunk (frustocones) as the B Book suggests this as opposed to the Shop manual.
I didn't have the beveled securing/centering washer for the torsion rod mounting to frame so i just inverted or reversed the nyloc nut. Found the rounded nylon end of the nyloc nut worked just like a centering bevel so I was satisfied with that.
Minor problem bolting the prop shaft to the diff flange. The "rearward" facing grease fitting that i had issues with earlier on the U-Joint installation became a problem with interference of the flange bolts. I had to remove the grease fitting and attach the bolts/nuts, then refit the grease fitting afterward.

I have a couple questions:

1) how tight do i wrench down on the torsion bar? (forward frame to lower differential) Seems I'm just squeezing the rubber bushings tight, but how tight is too tight?

2) getting ready to mount Roto-Flex couplings and got standard 7/16 2 3/4 in bolts. I saw a lot written about the "special" full shoulder, minimal thread. Shop manual was very specific about using them, but B book seems to say that standard thread bolts have been used since the Elan inception (confusing), so can i use standard bolts or must i use the longer shoulder, shorter thread "special order" ones?
TED
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:18 pm

Ted, you only want to compress the torsion bar rubber bushings a little. Your using lock nuts, just make it snug. With regard the the rotoflex you should only use the shouldered bolts as the threads from normal bolts will tear apart the rubber under stress. Would be OK to use full threaded bolts for a short time, but not long term.
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PostPost by: tedtaylor » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:13 pm

Appreciate feedback, but not to argue (just making an observation) I've observed the rubber couplings are ?sleeved? with metal tubes that the bolts go through and are ?encased? in the rubber of the rotoflex, therefore I can?t see how the threads on the bolts would wear down or corrupt the rubber?
If anything, I thought the reason might be based upon the idea ?threads? could be the weak link in the bolt thus no threads in the metal tube of the coupling to possibly fail? As opposed to a straight smooth threadless shoulder of the bolt ?mating? with the encased tube sleeve within the coupling, with no free play or movement?
any takers?
TED
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PostPost by: elanner » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:26 am

Ted,

The question of tightening the diff torque rod bushes was discussed in lotus-elan-f19/restoration-elan-eok-t30930-210.html around page 15. I too was simply tightening them until they looked right.

But Geoffers71 & Rohan set me straight by pointing out that the lock nuts should be tightened up against the step at the base of the threaded section of the torque rod. In my case the cup washers have different size holes in them. The one with the smaller hole fits over the threaded section but not over the step to the unthreaded section. So it goes on last and the lock nuts torque it up against the step.

The issue of using shouldered bolts (for drive shafts or anywhere else, such as the diff pinion flange) has been discussed a few times, and taught me that good engineering practice does not put threaded sections in shear. My mech eng instructor probably told me that several decades ago but I was doubtless not listening at the time.... ;-)

Nick
Last edited by elanner on Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:22 am

I stand corrected. Yes the rotoflex's have sleeves (momentary lapse of memory) and as nick correctly pointed out, not a good idea to use threaded bolts with threads inside the sleeves. It will work, but not a long term solution.
Glen
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PostPost by: tedtaylor » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:13 am

full day in the hot garage again and accomplished alot. Correct "sleeved" bolts came in from RDent so I was ready to make progress with assembly. I must say that i'm not totally happy with the written material out there. Even with the shop manual and the BB book, i'm still left agog when it comes to step by step procedures on complete reassembly. The shop manual covers part under "final drive" section, and covers part under "rear suspension" section, and so on. I'm all over the manual, checking one against the other and piecing together what must be done. The BB book gives excellent details on certain things as well and very helpful on certain "Parts" or "sections" of assembly, however back to my chief complaint = there is no one (1) single reference material for step by step reassembly, like what would be covered at the factory covering the building of the car from start to finish. Is there such a reference???

For example, the emergency brake "tree" i could have installed earlier, however i thought it would get in the way while installing the rear differential. Little did i know that it was a real BEAR to get in with rear diff in situ. Part of the problem was that i was missing the "spacer", so i ended up making one out of tubing to make a sleeve spacer. You can see it was probably missing from before because the frame appears bent inward from the bolt pulling together without the sleeve there to stop it.
rearupdate-004.jpg and

It took a good hour to feed the bolt from under the rear diff, through the hole, through the spacer, through the tree base, and through the rear frame member hole. Reaching behind to get the nut on was tight between the frame and body of the trunk. Perseverance paid off and the job is completed. Another question i had during the operation was also left "unanswered" in either shop manual or BB book. The tree base is offset whereas you can turn it one way to get real close to rear frame member, or turn it around to get it more centered. I know the manual places the tree at the farthest back, however i observed that the tree swivel top seemed to "hit" the rear body trunk. I know it's only an 1/8 inch difference at most, but again, no specific directions or discussions in the reference materials to go by.

I assembled the rear strut with new shock insert and compressed the springs. Another problem surfaced with my spring compressors interfering with the upper body cavity. There's very little room between the spring sides and the body up there, so i had to have the spring compressors closer together, as opposed to being located on direct opposite sides. it made the spring crooked during compression and more challenging to get it all together. It's a two man job, and the three of us (me, myself, and I) did it by ourselves. Fun, fun!
While attempting the above, i quickly realized that pre-assembly of the hub, brake disc, roto-flex, drive shaft, and inner roto-flex was too heavy and bulky to handle, even with a jack under the assembly the assembled drive shaft was interfering with the lowered wishbone. So i ended up temporarily attaching the outer wishbone to the strut hub base to have better control while jacking and to minimize unnecessary movement. Well after a couple hours of playing around with different configurations, i managed to get the strut up into the locotone/resilient mountings, attached nut and continued. Again the reference materials don't tell you "when" to uncompress the springs? Do i keep them compressed while mounting the last roto-flex coupling or use a jack under the hub, or both?? No specific directions on this either.
so you can see my frustrations from a full day of working on it, but HEY! I got one side done, completely assembled. All roto-flex are tightened, but all the wishbone bolts and strut top are waiting for the weight of the car to better set the position nearest normal ride height and then torque the remaining fasteners.
rearupdate-001.jpg and

here's the finished side, all together and ready for torquing.
Mother nature is turning up the heat this week each day, so hopefully i'll get more done tomorrow morning before it gets to hot to work.
TED
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PostPost by: tedtaylor » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:00 am

actually, i stand corrected. I just re-read the BB book and although a couple pages apart, and with many detailed instructions along the way, it does indeed say when to "decompress" the spring compressors.

What i need is a reporting secretary there in the garage to read aloud, step by step, while i'm under the car! :lol:
TED
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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:37 am

Ted,
It looks like you have used standard bolts from Fastenal to join the outboard ends of the rear wishbone to the hub carrier. Forgive me if I am wrong and you have gotten these bolts from RD or one of the other Lotus parts specialists. The correct bolts have a reduced height hex head (roughly one-half normal height) to clear the inner diameter of the wheels. While the Elan is up on jack stands you should fit the wheels and check for cleanse at these bolts heads. I think this was part of the discussion earlier in this thread.

Postscript: Oops, yes I did mention this before. I probably should not be posting so far after by bedtime!
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PostPost by: tedtaylor » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:03 am

thanks Russ for your suggestion. I will check for wheel clearance. Actually my large $75 order from Fastenal has given me several sets of bolts I ended up not using since I found out the threads were longer and the shoulder shanks were shorter than necessary (especially with the roto-flex couplings), so i ended up buying those "special" bolts from RD. The outer wishbone bolts came with the car as "spare" parts and I don't know where they were obtained. Both were 4", so I had to cut the rearward bolt a quarter inch to 3 3/4" spec. It was tough to cut, even with a saws-all, so the metal bolts may have been "hardened"? The picture is possibly exagerated somewhat since i have not "tightened" or torqued fully yet with road weight load on rear suspension. so it might appear to be sticking out further than it is. I'll definitely check into this. Thanks again.
TED
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:37 am

Ted, your doing great work, especially working alone under the car on the floor. And your taking time to photograph what your accomplishing! Bravo!

Suggestion on cutting down bolt heads, use a grinder.....easier than a saws-all.
Glen
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