Lotus Elan

wind screen wipers which side!!

PostPost by: Crusty » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:37 pm

Just noticed that my wipers go the other way to a few cars i have just seen advertised! So i checked with a photo to save me from going out to the garage in the rain to check and yes mine start over the drivers side is that ok ?
In my photo, taken in the Goodwood car park a few years back the Jag nx to me has the same wiper orientation as mine!
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>...SEE YOU ON THE FLIP SIDE...<
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PostPost by: mark030358 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:17 pm

The only thing that determines which is right for your car is the crank of the wiper arms. If you want it to park on the other side you will need new arms and the motor drive gear switch (ramp) rotating 180 degrees. There is NO one way that is definitively correct.

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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:57 pm

Yes.
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PostPost by: Plus 2 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:30 am

Hi,

Now this is one of my pet subjects on many forums and I have never really myself figured it all out. Nearly as bad as the oil debates and zinc ppm content for flat tappet cars.

In my opinion (I stress my opinion) there IS a definitive CORRECT way wipers should be and it is quite logic really.

Why any driver would want the first action of the wipe to dump all the passenger side rain in front of them rather than the first action to clear the screen does not need much thought on logics/preference. However the flip side of the argument is the wiper blades should rest on the opposite side ie passenger side so as to maintain unrestricted vision for the driver especially when you see how badly some wipers are set on the splines and cranked on the arms when parked.

However legislation on wipers merely covers the wiped area for vision and as often changing for right and left hand drive cars can mean scuttle body holes positions and wiper mechanism packaging for operation be totally different, then many car manufacturers reduce the body in white (BIW) build complexity and just produce the operation common on one side.

Other car designs can achieve the packaging so the body scuttle holes are common and utilising wiper motors that are 180 degrees variant on parking and different cranked wiper arms like the Lotus can achieve either set up for left or right hand drive cars.

Then with Lotus we can throw in the argument they just fitted what stock was available so the variance is what we see most common. However I can't put that argument forward as I doubt Rolls Royce could be tarred with such a comment and my Shadow parks passenger side despite being RHD. The Esprit also parks passenger side but with the single wipe articulated design the wiper arm cannot be set to lie flat so one would not want it to park on the drivers side and impair vision. The Ferrari 308 again whether LHD or RHD changes to park passenger side but very poor static fit at parked so again to rest in front of the driver would impair vision.

So the dillema and argument on which way is correct has to remain does it really matter, however on the Elan as is the MGB too I believe 'drivers side' was the original design intent :D

Regards

Steve
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PostPost by: PeterK » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:47 am

My Plus 2 parks on the passenger side (left side on a RHD)
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PostPost by: saildrive2001 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:16 pm

My S4 RHD has always parked on the left.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:47 pm

My S3 and S4 park to the right, and the Plus 2 to the left!

There was a show-and-tell on here on the same subject a few years ago, and it seems that you could have an original car parked either way, RHD or LHD! In other words, when the cars were being assembled, you could have a LHD arrangement in a RHD car, and the other way around.

The consensus was that parking on the driver's side was the norm...but don't fret if yours doesn't.

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PostPost by: Plus 2 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:01 pm

My tailor says it does not matter either which way they are hung :mrgreen:
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:46 pm

:) this is a fun topic.

On Modern cars its obvious where the wipers are supposed to sit for the simple reason the Arms are not positioned in the centre like these older cars, so does that mean the wipers where put where ever it suited the manufacture for export etc? or the curve of the screen made it necessary to park the Blade on the most curved section?? Duno.

I was told back in the day the wipers should always park on the left, but if there is one thing i have learnt that most teachers in the Auto trade wing it :lol:
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:47 pm

Hmmm, I've had a quick review of the fleet, and can draw only one conclusion...there is no definite side to park on!

It looked like parking on the right was the norm, certainly with the Jags and Lotus in the 1960s, but then Fords all parked on the left, and my Mini Moke parks on the left. Then Jags swapped over to parking on the left in the 70s, up to today. All the moderns that I've looked at are parked on the left, apart from my Clio, which parks on the right...the same as the left hand drive cars. That's probably because they could't be arsed to put the wipers on the proper side for Les Rosbifs!

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PostPost by: saildrive2001 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:51 pm

There are very strict requirements for the area of the windshield that must be wiped. The drivers side is more than the passengers side. This is why the drivers side wiper is designed so that it is parallel to the A pillar when at that end of the stroke. Fifty years ago I would guess that there were few if any requirements for the wiper system. I spent eight years of my life working for two different companies who manufactured wipers & wiper systems. As in all things they are far more complicated than at first glance.
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:02 am

Moving on a little,the MOT test stipulates that the swept area must be free from defects/obstructions ( or something like that ) so if one has a stone-chip causing a MOT fail, altering the parking position ( hence the swept area ) could give one a Pass ?

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PostPost by: Plus 2 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:17 am

saildrive2001 wrote:There are very strict requirements for the area of the windshield that must be wiped. The drivers side is more than the passengers side.


Hi,

As I said above my 'pet subject' and many many hours I have been involved in the detail not on car forum discussions but high level 'Board Director/Programme Manager meetings' . Producing the prototypes for a major UK luxury car company with the CAD packaging designers the engineering behind it all to meet legislation today is quite complex for homologation and covers the drivers vision within the wiped area and can vary country to country.

The legislation does not address or need requirement to conform which side of the car the wipe commences from or indeed the ''drivers side is more than the passenger side'' is neither a compliant (However both to me are simply logical but get ignored by many car manufacturers).

Pictured below is a RHD Jaguar of similar periods to my Rolls Royce and the Elans production era. Again this is the 'logical' correct way IMHO yet as the RR picture shows above these are parked totally opposite side. However the RR has a much more complex wiper motor design that has a delay after being used inbetween intermittent use in light rain before the wipers then drop into the parked position so would be an annoying restriction to drivers vision inbetween light rain intermittent strokes if not parked on the passenger side. So there is a lot of technical aspects or cost implications to it all when companies have to make the decisions.

The tight legislation of NA meant at one point Jaguar's, MGB's and some other makes had to be fitted with 3 wiper blades to pass the required driver visual restrictions. Actually today even door mirrors have to conform to certain visual obstruction areas of the driver.

Those amazing huge air intake monsters seen on many American hot rods would never pass the legislation but no doubt similar to the UK other than at point of compliance for initial sale an owner can actually undertake many additions and I believe only one minor UK law states something on forward vision albeit rear vision for trailers/caravans has got some strict guidelines now.

Look at any Jaguar XJ6 (XJ40) between around late 80's to 2000 model year you will see it has a single wiper that just simply flip/flops from the centre so no space taken up with linking two wipers across to each other with levers and rod mechanisms. The wiped area is exactly the same for both passenger and driver. This is unlike other cars with a single wiper that have an articulated exterior design on the wiper arm itself like the Lotus Esprit and some Mercedes that does specifically improve the drivers side wiped area vision.

So the wiped area on the XJ40 is exactly the same whether driver or passenger and indeed whilst it conformed to legislation for NA (Jaguar's biggest customer) it was one of the biggest annoyances (customer feedback complaints) on the vehicle for the driver as there was so much of the screen top corners not wiped and just the area where the higher traffic lights and freeway signs when travelling could be obscurred.

To repackage for a twin wipe as continually requested under Ford ownership could not be done without major body construction investment and a total redesign of the plenum area which was then only seen after 2000 and the replacement new models had twin wipers.

Again as I stated above there should be no argument which way the wipers should sit, the first priority IMHO is to clear the screen for the driver. The issue does then really become whether the design of the car exposes the wipers in front of the driver again something today being addressed by deeper screens to the scuttle with obscuration bands that whilst the wipers sit on glass the area falls below the interior vision of the driver where the wipers park.

Just saying my wipers park to the left or right requires one to know whether the car is RHD or LHD so easier to refer to the fact the wipers park on the drivers side :D or passengers side :( :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

It is good debate though and for sure 'twin wipers' for the Lotus, MGB, Jaguar's, Triumphs all of the 60's/70's period to be correct should park on the drivers side. My original Elan UK RHD sales brochure issued by Lotus clearly shows this. Any Lotus Elan where parked differently was just stock availabilityat the factory as it appears Lotus Elan's are the most common variable model the question arises on.

BTW Rain X is a great product that can be applied to the windscreen regularly and means in light rain the wipers are less required and one day maybe wiper blades will be old technology as testing for ultrasonic water dispersion on windscreens continues.

Picture 1 show 3 wipe e-Type LHD parking drivers side. Picture 2 ...3 wipe MGB LHD parking passenger side.........figure that one out :? Picture 3 twin wipe Jaguar RHD parked drivers side...AAHHH sanity :lol:

No doubt TBC

Regards

Steve
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PostPost by: 69S4 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:35 am

john.p.clegg wrote:Moving on a little,the MOT test stipulates that the swept area must be free from defects/obstructions ( or something like that ) so if one has a stone-chip causing a MOT fail, altering the parking position ( hence the swept area ) could give one a Pass ?

John :wink:


Just took my Land Rover in for an MOT a few days ago with a stone chip in the swept area and it passed (on that anyway - failed on other stuff :( ). The tester said afterwards that the rules had changed for chips and now it fails if it obscures your view of the road. My chip obscured his view of the bonnet. It's a good job he's about a foot taller than me :roll:
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:39 pm

Odd how the picture of the screen is drawn (wiper layout)
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