What's wrong with the term 'Baby Elan' ?

[holywood3645]

Q. What's wrong with the term 'Baby Elan'
A. Nothing

[Elanman99]

[quote]I also don't give a rat's arse about the price of fish.

[/quote]

Since you brought up the subject, I do, and so do the hardworking trawlermen of Grimsby (some of whome must have owned Lotus cars)

Ian

[LotusElan+217]

I think the pyschology of this is fascinating, reading through this thread alone, ignoring other threads in a similar vien that I can't be bothered to search and read at this point, it seems that the conscensus of opinion is that the term "Baby Elan" didn't exist until it was coined on this forum.

Certain publications are given as evidence that the term was not in use back then, a Lotus owner of 50 years standing (far more than my own) states that he has never heard of it, as a neutral you would be forgiven for thinking that those are facts, the term simply didn't exist.

I am not doubting those opinions for one moment, when someone says they have never heard of the term then why should they lie, but to assume that just because they haven't heard of it that it didn't exist is simply incorrect.

The fact, not opinion, that the original poster has referred to his own Elan as the Baby Elan for 30/35 years and the fact that I called it Baby Elan in 1977 and continually since, proves that beyond doubt the term was in use at that time, whether it be widely used or not, it was used, like it or not.

I am willing to concede that my perception that it was widely used might be flawed, the simple fact that I might have used the term in a conversation with other owners or Graham Arnold it is entirely conceivable that they may not have known what I was talking about and simply went along with it, maybe with the passage of time I simply imagined reading about it in publications, I honestly don't know.

What I can say for certain is that the term is at least 35 years old and 2 people at least can testify to that.

[UAB807F]

The first time I heard or read the term was in one of Christopher Neil's parts lists, and that would be in the late 70s I guess. It was new to me although I'd had my Elan for a few years and don't recall any other folks using the term until that point. But CN had quite a big presence at Lotus meetings and despite the variable reviews on their parts supply lots of folks (including myself) used them and no doubt the term grew along with their PR machine.

Memories fade with age (that's my excuse) but surely Graham Arnold was one of those that came out against the phrase "Baby Elan" ? If it's of serious debate I guess I could search through the old Club Lotus newsletters of the period because I'm pretty sure it was one of his editorials back then.

Brian

[LotusElan+217]

The first time I heard or read the term was in one of Christopher Neil's parts lists, and that would be in the late 70s I guess. It was new to me although I'd had my Elan for a few years and don't recall any other folks using the term until that point. But CN had quite a big presence at Lotus meetings and despite the variable reviews on their parts supply lots of folks (including myself) used them and no doubt the term grew along with their PR machine.

Memories fade with age (that's my excuse) but surely Graham Arnold was one of those that came out against the phrase "Baby Elan" ? If it's of serious debate I guess I could search through the old Club Lotus newsletters of the period because I'm pretty sure it was one of his editorials back then.

Brian

Very good point Brian, you may well be right that Graham Arnold didn't like the term, memory plays funny tricks but I do seem to recall the article you are referring to, and almost certainly if it exists it will be in my catalogue of Club Lotus magazines, it would be great if one of us could dig it out.

Of course that would be conclusive evidence that it was a widely used term. The Christopher Neil connection is also hugely relevant, in 1977 they were the only major supplier of cheap parts as they were back then independent of Lotus, I either ordered new parts from them or if they didn't have them in stock I used to take a short drive to Edgware and buy over priced parts from the official dealer, the other alternative was a trip to Derek Dean in Ruislip for secondhand parts.

If CN referred to it as the Baby Elan then it is inconceivable that Lotus owners of that period would not have heard of it.

[lightwait26]

This term will probably be always used by a small group of people -- probably the same group of which Jerry Seinfeld opined "Not that there's anything wrong with that".

[LotusElan+217]

First publication I picked up, Lotus Elan A Restoration Guide by Gordon Lund.

Published 2002 so okay only 10 years old but a major publication nonetheless.

[nebogipfel]

Without looking through my Lotus library I have no proof of this, but I suspect the term 'baby' was probably first coined by a motoring journalist.

I have just had a quick shufty at the Michael Bowler article on Elans and +2s from Thoroughbred & Classic Cars of September 1976, which is, as far as I am aware, the first retrospective article on our Elans by any classic magazine. Nowhere in that article can I find the term baby. Furthermore Bowler was a staff writer on Motor during the 60's, so I guess that if the term was in general use at that time, he might have used it in his article.

It would therefore appear that the term 'baby' did not enjoy greater usage until some considerable time after production of the +2 ended. Either way, for me it is quite clear, there are Elans and there are +2s and I do not feel baby an appropriate term, even if it is used endearingly, lovey!

Tim

Perfectly put Tim

I am also not aware of the wide usage of the B word untill recently and also more commonly on this forum.

My point was that the term is meaningless, there is no Baby Elan, never has been, as I said in the original post on the subject there is no confusion .........Elan refers to the 2-seater S1 to Sprint then there is the +2, Plus 2 or Elan +2.

I don't care what anyone calls their car. My (I thought reasonable) argument was that here on the LotusElan.net forum where we try to regard history and accuracy with some importance the term should have no place.

[nebogipfel]

First publication I picked up, Lotus Elan A Restoration Guide by Gordon Lund.

Published 2002 so okay only 10 years old but a major publication nonetheless.

I think Gordon ought to know better

You seem to be arguing with much passion about this and as I keep saying please feel free to call your Elan whatever you like.

My hope, and I suspect I'm doomed to failure here, was to stop the seemingly viral spread of a meaningless term within the Lotus community.

[LotusElan+217]

First publication I picked up, Lotus Elan A Restoration Guide by Gordon Lund.

Published 2002 so okay only 10 years old but a major publication nonetheless.

I think Gordon ought to know better

You seem to be arguing with much passion about this and as I keep saying please feel free to call your Elan whatever you like.

My hope, and I suspect I'm doomed to failure here, was to stop the seemingly viral spread of a meaningless term within the Lotus community.

No more passion than your distaste for the term, even referring to it as the B word.

I have a +2, I know it is an Elan +2 but am quite happy to refer to it as the +2, it doesn't bother me, similarly, if I owned an Elan I would refer to it as the Elan but it wouldn't concern me in the slightest it someone referred to it as the Baby Elan, it is what I have been used to for 35 years.

I bow to the concensus, most of you don't like the term Baby Elan and whilst I have used it copiously in this thread as it is in the title, I won't refer to it as such in any other threads.

I would also like to dispel the myth that it was only on this forum that the term originated, it is part of the Lotus heritage no matter how much that annoys you.

[simonknee]

to stop the seemingly viral spread

On the first page of google results for the term "baby elan" is

free-parking-f19/baby-elan-not-here-please-t24806.html

I think the girls and boys on t'interweb call this an "epic fail"

Simon

[nebogipfel]

On the first page of google results for the term "baby elan" is

free-parking-f19/baby-elan-not-here-please-t24806.html

I think the girls and boys on t'interweb call this an "epic fail"

Simon

Ah! but I see it as spreading the word old chap

I'm actually amazed how hot under the collar some folk are getting about my little campaign I still think it's a perfectly reasonable point to make

[LotusElan+217]

On the first page of google results for the term "baby elan" is

free-parking-f19/baby-elan-not-here-please-t24806.html

I think the girls and boys on t'interweb call this an "epic fail"

Simon

Ah! but I see it as spreading the word old chap

I'm actually amazed how hot under the collar some folk are getting about my little campaign I still think it's a perfectly reasonable point to make

Referring to my earlier post, do you mind me asking how old you are and how long you have had your Elan? Only a lady should be offended at that question, that's not a suggestion that you are a lady of course.

Not hot under the collar at all, just trying to put the record straight.

[simonknee]

A lady never reveals her age <edit> oh you were asking Nigel <edit> rumbled!

[ardee_selby]

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