Lotus Elan

Elan Issues

PostPost by: tvacc » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:18 am

Is everyone asleep?
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Tony Vaccaro
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PostPost by: jk952 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:27 am

Hi Tony,
I spent many hours cleaning measuring etc. the orig. oil pump, plunger, can, etc; only to find it leaks anyway either out the bolt top or the sides, and it's hard to find an element anywhere here that fits properly.... in the end, I just ordered a new screw on filter type pump, not very expensive and far easier, ubiquitous filter. Now the unenviable job of installing when in the car... have to change an eng. mount anyway....I believe it will clear if I move the eng. up or down a bit...

Jack
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PostPost by: tvacc » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:45 am

I have installed the pump iin a 66 Coupe without removing the motor. I seem to recall I had to support the motor and then take off both mounts. I then moved it towards the left hand side and the pump just made it out.
Good luck and let me know how it goes.



jk952 wrote:Hi Tony,
I spent many hours cleaning measuring etc. the orig. oil pump, plunger, can, etc; only to find it leaks anyway either out the bolt top or the sides, and it's hard to find an element anywhere here that fits properly.... in the end, I just ordered a new screw on filter type pump, not very expensive and far easier, ubiquitous filter. Now the unenviable job of installing when in the car... have to change an eng. mount anyway....I believe it will clear if I move the eng. up or down a bit...

Jack
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:50 am

Tony
Re the front jackshaft bearing hole alignments that looks fine and should enable sufficient head oil flow. I presume you had the standard Lotus jackshaft with the extra cutouts that feeds more oil than the ford jackshaft.

I would have to dig out an old oil pump to confirm but I would not necessarly be worried about the pump performance either if one chamber looked dry - you need to follow the oil flow through thep ump and filter passages to determine if you have flow through he complete system

Your engine is out now so regardless of the issue you need to check the bearings, oil suction arrangement and oil passages and passage plugs so you are confident all the oils flows will happen as intended and you have good bearings in the engine.
I would also install a new pump and spin on filter

You then need to reinstall and properly prime the oil system from a pressure bottle through the oil pressure sensor portand you should then get immediate pressure.

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:31 am

Tony, find a way to mount the engine on a stand that will allow you to at least crank it to get pressure. If you can get it to start, even better. Then, install in car.

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PostPost by: tvacc » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:40 am

Rohan,
I don't know if this is the correct Lotus crankshaft. I will take photos of it and post them. Please let me know after I do.
Tony Vaccaro
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LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:47 am

Hi Tony I presume you mean jackshaft not crankshaft

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PostPost by: memini55 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:05 pm

Tony,

As Rohan said since the motor is out now is the time to check everything. I would not reccomend as Greg to spin it up
to start as we know it has an issue and that should be found first. It is important to flow the oil path and make sure when it was rebuilt that all the passages are clean. When my machine shop works on my blocks all the oil plugs come out and the build is hot tank soaked and washes. Then shot tumbled, next machine work done, then washed for assembly they run small brushes and rods down all the oil passages.

Would agree the jackshaft bearing is OK. Does it by chance have a shorten jackshaft, or full length? On the block with the head removed on the front above the oil pump corner is the main gally which feeds the head. In most of my motors
I have installed a restrictor to reduce the flow to the head, its a small alluminum plug with a .120 hole. You might look to see that that passage is clean and open. I have a block going together and can get a picture if you wish.

I would suggest if you don't have the skills to mearsure and check all the clearences it is time to get to a good machine shop.

Mark
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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:27 pm

Whoops, Mark's right. What I meant to say is, after going through the engine to fix faults, and before installing in the car, find a way to spin it up and possibly start it on a secure stand to determine all's well.

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PostPost by: memini55 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:05 pm

Greg now that I can agree to also.

One point I never used to do that Rohan made but I cant tell you how important it is. Pressurize the oil system with a oil tank before starting the motor. It will push oil up through out the system before it even begins to run. I know you said you packed the oil pump with vasoline but that still is not getting oil into the system, it just helps it start the suction. May motors are damage right after assembly from that short amount of run time with no oil. When I assemble a dry motor I also us lots of bearing assembly lube. Anything that turns gets lube.

Keep us posted to your progress.
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PostPost by: tvacc » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:20 pm

Yes

:oops: :oops:
rgh0 wrote:Hi Tony I presume you mean jackshaft not crankshaft

regards
Rohan
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: tvacc » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:32 pm

This is the jack shaft. I think it is the right one, let me know.

Just a thought here. If I pressurize the oil galley, filling the motor with oil, then crank the car. How will I know that the issue is solved, ie oil going to the head? It seems that by the time I know that, with the motor started, it will be too late. If I left it dry, just assembly lube, I could look into the oil filler or take off the cam cover to see once I got oil pressure. Just a thought.

I did notice one more thing, but I cannot tell you if it was before or after I took off the oil pump. I dont remember. When we rotated the motor on its side for first time, I was carefully watching that corner oil passage. the hole right at the front by the side with the dist. No oil came out of that hole at anytime.

I honestly don't know of anyone around here that could either test crank or test fire the motor out of the car. I will have to think about that. All of the bearings and journals look fine except for what I think is just an oil ridge on the crank journals from sitting so long. I dont now why cylinder number 4 would not hold penetrating oil in it overnight. All looks fine to me.

My next move is to take it to a machine shop I have used since the 70's. They have done 4 or 5 Elan motors for me over the years. They are just good machine shop guys. They work on everything from Cummins diesels to race car motors. Not twin cam specialists, but they know what they are doing.

I am sort of at a lost of what else to do except check the oil galley. Should I run a wire through it?
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Tony Vaccaro
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LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: memini55 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:03 pm

The jackshaft looks to be the correct stock unit. If you are taking this to the good machine shop make sure they know the problem so they can look for any issue. You need not worry about the oil passages as they will clean everything.

Now to the oil pressure tank, this is done before you even think about starting the motor. The motor does not turn over at all. Oil is forced through the system with the air pressure and you will see oil pushed out around the cams in the head. You can watch it happen by the oil pooling up as a normal running motor. Once you see lots of oil in the top end you are good to disconnect the oil tank and connect the oil gauge and start the motor. This primes oil to all areas of the system.

Do a search on the Australian website, the name slips my mind at the moment, but they show how to build this pressure system and I am sure your good machine shop will know what I am talking about.

OK I found the site elanfactoryDOTcomDOTau.
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PostPost by: tvacc » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:13 pm

Thanks.

Does anyone know of one that I just can buy? Not that I dont like building things and I have not looked at the site, but I seem to do one of these every few years, Might be worth the investment.

edit....dont see it on the site, I am probably missing it. Does anyone have a link to it?

tony



memini55 wrote:The jackshaft looks to be the correct stock unit. If you are taking this to the good machine shop make sure they know the problem so they can look for any issue. You need not worry about the oil passages as they will clean everything.

Now to the oil pressure tank, this is done before you even think about starting the motor. The motor does not turn over at all. Oil is forced through the system with the air pressure and you will see oil pushed out around the cams in the head. You can watch it happen by the oil pooling up as a normal running motor. Once you see lots of oil in the top end you are good to disconnect the oil tank and connect the oil gauge and start the motor. This primes oil to all areas of the system.

Do a search on the Australian website, the name slips my mind at the moment, but they show how to build this pressure system and I am sure your good machine shop will know what I am talking about.

OK I found the site elanfactoryDOTcomDOTau.
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: memini55 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:36 pm

Tony,

Did look at the elanfactory site and did not find the tank set up.
Did a quick search with google and found this one.

http://www.melling.com/Aftermarket/High ... eTank.aspx

I don't know anything about the company so look it over.

Mark
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