Catastrophe on Elan ownership day one!

PostPost by: Steve G » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:04 pm

Oops, I realise I've said clutch cover plate, which means something else, it's the stainless steel 'horseshoe' shaped plate that goes around the flywheel and between the engine and bell housing surfaces. It can't be fitted first as it's held in place by the bell housing to engine bolts. The clutch (and clutch cover!) was all fitted properly by the engine builder.

The input shaft is straight and spins very freely and smoothly (when in neutral). I wasn't sure whether I should have greased the input shaft so I applied a very small amount . I know you don't want grease flying around near the clutch plate. Should I remove this immediately? :oops:

I will keep trying tonight, I might take the headers off and zip tie them in place, even bolting them on very loosely means they are quite rigid and obstructive. Putting bolts through is a great idea to line up, I will do that first.

I am going to buy a load of UNF bolts and nuts from these guys
http://www.namrick.co.uk/acatalog/Home_ ... s__15.html
Are Nyloc nuts suitable everywhere, or only in specific places? There are no length options, Are they all standard lengths or need cutting down?
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PostPost by: paddy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:18 pm

Steve G wrote:I wasn't sure whether I should have greased the input shaft so I applied a very small amount . I know you don't want grease flying around near the clutch plate. Should I remove this immediately? :oops:


Opinions vary:

elan-f15/clutch-plate-spline-lubrication-t18396.html

Personally I've always put the tiniest bit on - just enough to "wet" the surface and make it shiny (ie put some on and then wipe it all off).

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PostPost by: types26/36 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:22 pm

[quote="Steve G"]it's the stainless steel 'horseshoe' shaped plate that goes around the flywheel and between the engine and bell housing surfaces. It can't be fitted first as it's held in place by the bell housing to engine bolts.

Are you talking about the sandwich plate that goes between the engine & bellhousing? if so hang it on the dowels and secure it with string or thin copper wire before fitting the engine, as the engine goes in the string/wire will break and you can pull it out.

Quote: "I am going to buy a load of UNF bolts and nuts from these guys"
The bolts that go into cast iron or alloy are UNC not UNF, unf bolts usually have a nut on them
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PostPost by: Steve G » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:36 pm

Yes, the sandwich plate. OK, it was on the dowels but the smallest knock when wiggling and it would come off. I will tie it on, thanks.

OK, I read on here that most bolts on the Elan are UNF, I have five longer ones with a spring washer on each (but no nuts) and two shorter ones that must thread into the block (the two at the top). They all look to have the same threads per inch on them.

Paddy, that's exactly as I did it, wiped it off afterwards so it's just 'shiny'.
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PostPost by: types26/36 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:05 pm

Steve G wrote:OK, I read on here that most bolts on the Elan are UNF, I have five longer ones with a spring washer on each (but no nuts) and two shorter ones that must thread into the block (the two at the top). They all look to have the same threads per inch on them.


Most nuts & bolts on the Elan are UNF EXCEPT for the ones that screw into the engine block,bellhousing and alloy front cover, UNF is a finer thread than UNC which is a course thread and is used when screwing into cast iron (engine block) and alloy parts,
have a look at those bolts you have ........does the thread look quite course? the bellhousing is also cast iron so the top and bottom starter bolts are also UNC.
PS fogot to add that the chassis mounting bolts that screw into the body bobbins are also UNC.
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PostPost by: billwill » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:04 pm

To turn the engine, I just usually use a socket spanner and bar on the nut on the pully on the front of the crankshaft.
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PostPost by: robertverhey » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:48 pm

From memory there are two spigot bearing / bush diameters....don't suppose the smaller one has been fitted and you're now trying to get a larger input shaft into it?
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PostPost by: Steve G » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:40 am

No, it's the original spigot bearing, it was fine so no need to replace. I have been turning engine using a socket. Couldn't get it on last night but was on my own, going to do it with a friend tonight. Got the sandwich plate wired into place, going to get new UNC bolts today from Nut and Bolt store (very handy being in Brighton). They are definitely all UNC, now I know the difference it's immediately obvious which thread density a bolt is.

I still need to know whether all of the bolts between bell housing and cylinder block need spring washers and the correct torque settings for these and the engine mount bolts.
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PostPost by: curly type 26 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:57 am

Hi Steve, Paddy 100% correct, but could also be worth checking correct pressure plate fitted, & centralised can assure you weve all been there you push tug swear threatin it with all sorts of violence then someone in the next room coughs & in it goes, & all is forgotten in a trice. Stand to be corrected but all block to gbox are bolts & spring washers no nuts involved 2 top pass through gbox to block the rest go block to gbox, cant remember sizes but sure someone will post that info for you. Enjoy its worth it :D Curly
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PostPost by: Steve G » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:58 am

Thanks Colin, I hope it goes better tonight. Lots of tea and try and stay calm! Thanks for info about bolts, I knew I couldn't have lost any nuts. It's just that there are a few holes through both with no thread either side. Maybe I imagined it?
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PostPost by: paddy » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:09 am

Steve G wrote:It's just that there are a few holes through both with no thread either side. Maybe I imagined it?


The dowel holes will have no threads - maybe you're thinking of these?

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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:51 pm

Steve G wrote:I still need to know whether all of the bolts between bell housing and cylinder block need spring washers and the correct torque settings for these and the engine mount bolts.


Always use lock washers in this type of application.

The standard torque is 40-45 lbs ft (54-61 Nm)
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PostPost by: Steve G » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:11 pm

It's in! Didn't take very long in the end, had it lined up in every direction, checked the position by placing the mounts temporarily and threaded some engine/bell housing bolts through to keep it lined up. My friend was wiggling it while I jacked the bell housing up a little bit then down again to make sure it wasn't resting on the engine, the next door neighbour's cat coughed, and on it popped!

Thanks for all your advice. I am very pleased, was a little tempted to stay up all night and drive off into the sunrise :? but I want to do it all properly and get the rev limiter in before I am tempted to turn the key. The twinc looks so good in the car, the car looked a little sad without it. :lol:

Who fancies helping me get it started this weekend? I think I may even have some chocolate Hobnobs in the cupboard!
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PostPost by: curly type 26 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:24 pm

Great news, im sure it was that all important magical cough, right time right volume & hey presto. But remember oil press up 1st b4 start. Yahoo! Curly :D
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PostPost by: Steve G » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:50 pm

Won't start!

Got everything back on the engine, timed the distributor to fire on cylinder one as engine aligned to TDC on one. reconnected the battery and fired her up. The starter is working nicely and the engine is turning over. I had the battery jumped from my diesel Ford Focus Police car with it's extra big battery so there was plenty of juice. There is a spark, there is fuel but it won't catch. Got a backfire from the exhaust on one try and one from the intake on another (scared the life out of my wife who was very kindly taking a video on her camera!).

I'm going to check that the engine is definitely TDC on one to fire (in between compression and power stroke) as I was told it was but the timing may be completely wrong way round. I've got Optronic ignition so I'm going to do a static ignition test with a voltmeter on that and re-time it.

I've hooked up the rev limiter and moved the ignition coil to the bolt next to the radiator but everything else is as it was installed before.

I also noticed that during a jack slipping incident I have damaged the protrusion that connects the vacuum hoses to the chassis, I have since learned that the Elan uses the chassis member as the vacuum reservoir for the headlamps! Could a vacuum leak here cause the engine to not turn over? I am going to metal bond the crack in the metal here to fix it as it will be too fiddly to weld.
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