Lotus Elan

S4 FHC soon to be DHC : Please see new MODS forum for update

PostPost by: ElanSeries2 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:40 pm

Dunno whether you have already made your mind up, Alan, but I wouldn't dismiss the K series, it has a lot going for it: Inlet/exhaust the right way round, unlike Duratec & S2000, weighs much less than all the options you are talking about, including original twink, easy gearbox options plus standard RWD conversions care of Caterham, loads and loads of tuning options, plus loads of know-how, plus they are cheap and in plentiful supply.
A friend of mine and I have just transplanted one into his MG Midget, and transformed the car into something much more attractive - it goes and handles for a start. We settled on 180bhp, as this is a cheap and easy point to stop (his is a 1600, rather than the more usual 1800). Its perfectly street driveable, docile in town and yet fairly shifts on a nice road. Careful building (and not running it like an idiot) avoids the head gasket issue, and the rest is fairly bomb-proof.
Although its been around a few years in smaller sizes, its not exactly old technology - its (to my mind) a vastly superior choice than, say, the Chrysler engine in the new mini. The effective BHP limit is around 260, but that's race only. 220 is perfectly achievable whilst still maintaining driveability.
You're going to have issues with whichever engine you choose, except perhaps the Zetec. Having tried to evaluate the Duratec for another engine swap, I gathered a few diagrammes and some useful info on it (which I'd be happy to share). I think (other than the exhaust and column wanting to share space) the biggest issue will be height: some sort of power bulge seems inevitable, which might spoil any Q car aspirations? Otherwise the Duratec looks great - 120kgs, easy 200bhp, loads of tuning potential, and going to be around for years. Choices, choices.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:49 pm

Go for the bumpy bonnet look...a hint of what lies beneath!!

Mark
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:11 am

Mark,
Is that your car with the BDA in it? or have you been busy on photoshop again..... we are having a project meeting in the next week or so and will have a Duratec available to have a good look at, looking at some of the measurements that Gary Anderson has given me it should fit under the bonnet ok, but the exhaust routing will cause the most headaches. I wondered if we could sweep the manifold forward like in a TVR and then route underneath on the left hand side, there's plenty of clearance to do this on an elan if the following picture is anything to go by.
simons sprint 04.jpg and
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:24 am

They say that where there's a will there's a way Alan.
Sweeping the Manifold forward & then routing it down & along the left side of the Engine could be do-able.
Don't forget that you will need Spanner access to the Manifold Studs which is never easy in the simplest installation.
It's also better to get the Primary & Secondary Manifold pipes equal & to the Tuners Spec'd lengths.
Also think about where you plan to install the Alternator & the run of the drive Belt; there won't be much room under the intake side or in this case under the exhaust also.

Keep us posted!
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PostPost by: msd1107 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:00 pm

Use Allen bolts. Makes installing the exhaust manifold infinitely easier.

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PostPost by: richgilb » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:29 pm

Forgive me for going back to the beginning, but why do you feel the need to do this? It seems to be an issue of trying to get as much power as possible whilst winding the purists up in the process.......at least I reckon it is. But the costs will be really high and it might not turn out to be as good to drive as a twincam, yes twincam Zetec, which feels alright, right? So back to the obvious one - just bung a Zetec in it, turbocharge it and spend the money you saved on more useful things, like community projects and paying the amount of tax you should really be declaring on your Revenue & Customs return, paying my credit card bill off etc etc
I am now an ex-Elan owner but will drop by from time to time with some suitably inappropriate comments.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:00 pm

Dear Richard,
You really are a troll aren't you? Suggesting that I would try to wind up the purists....shame on you!!! :roll:

Doing a zetec is easy and has been done many times before. and if you look here http://www.spydercars.co.uk/practical_classics.htm you will see that the original concept starting with Mick Stotts car is getting on for 10 years old. The zetec engine design is 10 years older than that, so we really should start looking forward to the next generation of donor engines. Spyder don't want to re-invent what they have already achieved, but they can't afford to stand still, all those people who bought a Zetec conversion won't want to upgrade to another zetec conversion. Caterham are using duratecs now, and 6 speeders.

My non dom status precludes me from filing a tax return and my community spirit is mostly Genfiddich. Credit cards are for losers!

Regards

PS: ooh! I see that Jeff has awarded me third gear now, that equals 90mph at 7200 in the +2!!!!!
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:14 am

The origin of Zetecs in Elans with Spyder Space Frames goes back further than Mike Stotts Car, believe me I know :wink:
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:40 am

Morning John,

I suspected that the zetec had a bit of a chequered history in the Elan prior to Spyder doing the factory full house conversions, and there was that early 1990's Christopher Neil zetec conversion with the dodgy gear lever position for sale on Ebay a few months ago. It all seems to be old hat and good reason to at least try something new.
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:01 am

Out of curiosity I've just checked my Records.
I started my Zetec project in 1996 after reading an article on putting a Zetec into a Caterham in "Car & Car Conversions in 1995.
I already had a Spyder Frame & Suspension to replace the rotting parts in my S4.

I'd like to point out that at the time I had access to a top quality machining & fabrication workshop that did work for me for a crate of Beer.
I was also able to design the parts I needed myself.

Be prepared for a lot of head scratching & deep pockets if you do decide to go down the Duratec route.
1 off Exhaust Manifold, Engine mounts, possibly Oil Pan etc. will cause headaches.

Cheers
John
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:48 pm

Duratec sound a bit old hat as well...the Fiesta boys have been using these for a while to out-do their Saxo and Corsa chums at the motorway services....and you'll need a 6 inch exhaust to play, which would look daft on the Elan.

If you want to do something interesting and different, how about grafting the Elan bodyshell onto a modified Cerbera chassis? A mate had one with a tweeked engine that would leave my Griff 500 in the dust, and that was quite nippy. Fast, fast fast, and they sound good too!

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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:51 pm

Elanintheforest wrote:
If you want to do something interesting and different, how about grafting the Elan bodyshell onto a modified Cerbera chassis? A mate had one with a tweeked engine that would leave my Griff 500 in the dust, and that was quite nippy. Fast, fast fast, and they sound good too!

Mark


Mark,
"Interesting and different" I'm happy with..... But I think I will leave the Frankenstein stuff to your good self :shock:

I had the +2 out today, the zetec suits it perfectly and it handles and rides like a dream thanks to the Spyder set up. Can't think why I am bothering to try and improve on that by doing something different with the S4, It's going to be 150 kilos lighter than the +2 and will be nimbler in the handling department, a 180 - 200bhp zetec will make it absolutely fly, sub 5 second 0-60 easily possible and more than a match for most Porkers, Beemers & Fezzers... it will look pretty too and will still piss off the purists, so thats no bad thing :twisted:
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PostPost by: richgilb » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:25 pm

Finally he sees sense.
I am now an ex-Elan owner but will drop by from time to time with some suitably inappropriate comments.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:27 pm

If it's just fast you want, how about one of these? A combination of fibreglass and hayabusa, with an extra wheel so it's safe too.

Great commentary!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbYsSO7frCY

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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:18 am

Elanintheforest wrote:If it's just fast you want, how about one of these? A combination of fibreglass and hayabusa, with an extra wheel so it's safe too.

Great commentary!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbYsSO7frCY

Mark


10.4 thats Forking Good That! (I think that's what the Mancunian said)

Now could somebody please explain to me why on Earth anyone would want to ruin a Bond Bug by doing that to it :roll:
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