Lotus Elan

S4 FHC soon to be DHC : Please see new MODS forum for update

PostPost by: elansprint » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:12 pm

The Duratec has the inlet/exhaust the wrong way also the 2000 is a fantastic engine but the gearbox is fairly large also the ecu's even know if the fuel pump is missing & all data is on canbus to use an aftermarket ecu is a problem to find one to run the i vtec. As for the Cosworth the problem is the exhaust & turbo
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:07 am

Ian,
Thanks for the info and a very good point about the vtec engine management, I've got a few months to get the thinking cap warmed up about the engine option, at the moment its looking zetec again but there is the possibility of a supercharger to go on that if it can be plumbed in to fit the engine bay, also there's some toyota engines to look at.
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PostPost by: Mark B » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:13 pm

Alan,

Another point worth noting is that the s2000 engine also turns the wrong way ie anticlockwise, if you really want a vtec then you want the (k20 I believe it's referred too) civic type r engine. A friend produced the first honda elise many years ago & this is the engine they all use still. The honda is a very tall engine though & a dry sump system would be a must.

Sounds like an interesting project anyway, I'm beginning an s4 dhc zetec myself.....

If you do decide to go zetec, I will have my 200 mile high spec 210+bhp 2 ltr zetec for sale in about a month. Pm me if it's of any use. It's a silvertop version btw.

Cheers,
Mark.
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PostPost by: twincamman » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:47 pm

OH DEAR--- PERHAPS A 32 HI BOY WITH a 427 ci is more for you --Im no purist but you cant make it better by butchering it unless it moos - :cry: --ed
dont close your eyes --you will miss the crash

Editor: On June 12, 2020, Edward Law, AKA TwinCamMan, passed away; his obituary can be read at https://www.friscolanti.com/obituary/edward-law. He will be missed.
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:37 pm

twincamman wrote:OH DEAR--- PERHAPS A 32 HI BOY WITH a 427 ci is more for you --Im no purist but you cant make it better by butchering it unless it moos - :cry: --ed


Our Ed, founder member of "The flat Earth Society" being so expectedly positive :roll:
Beware of the Illuminati


Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:50 pm

Mark B wrote:Alan,

Another point worth noting is that the s2000 engine also turns the wrong way ie anticlockwise, if you really want a vtec then you want the (k20 I believe it's referred too) civic type r engine. A friend produced the first honda elise many years ago & this is the engine they all use still. The honda is a very tall engine though & a dry sump system would be a must.

Sounds like an interesting project anyway, I'm beginning an s4 dhc zetec myself.....

If you do decide to go zetec, I will have my 200 mile high spec 210+bhp 2 ltr zetec for sale in about a month. Pm me if it's of any use. It's a silvertop version btw.

Cheers,
Mark.

Mark, thanks for the offer on the silver top, I already have a donor zetec lurking in my garage if I decide to go that route. Tall engines seems to be the name of the game these days and is causing a headache with all the possible up to date engine swaps. I'm even looking at the MX5 engine and 6 speeder, now that would be a sort of poetic sacrilege I think!

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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:56 pm

twincamman wrote:OH DEAR--- PERHAPS A 32 HI BOY WITH a 427 ci is more for you - :cry: --ed


What's one of them Ed? will it fit under the hood/bonnet? or is it --- too tall / wrong way round / just plain stupid / all of those things / none of those things / too boring / a bit wacky / not an alternative / not a serious suggestion ?????

Delete or underline as appropriate , many thanks. :roll:
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PostPost by: twincamman » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:47 pm

but the world IS flat ----it may be a disc and round ----but its flat ----I have seen it from 30 000 feet ----high enough to see both coasts of Scotland --yup she is flat --ed
dont close your eyes --you will miss the crash

Editor: On June 12, 2020, Edward Law, AKA TwinCamMan, passed away; his obituary can be read at https://www.friscolanti.com/obituary/edward-law. He will be missed.
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PostPost by: richgilb » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:11 pm

why don't you just buy a TVR?
I am now an ex-Elan owner but will drop by from time to time with some suitably inappropriate comments.
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PostPost by: Steve G » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:56 pm

I'm a big fan of VTEC engines, I've just sold a car with one. A car that is supposed to have one. Why don't you just buy an Ariel Atom? You can get an early one for less than you are going to waste on butchering an Elan. They aren't making any more you know, once all the Elans are gone that is it. There are enough silly little over-engined kit cars out there without ruining something as pure and original as an Elan. I'm sorry if I sound rude, this sort of thing just really upsets me. If it was a FHC then that's what it is, that's why they sold both types. Why not sell it and buy a DHC that's already had a Zetec conversion, you'll save money I promise, it's not like you're doing the work yourself and enjoying the challenge!
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:26 am

Steve,
You don't sound rude, just passionate about what you believe in.

I didn't start this thread to ask for permission to do this, I started it simply to share what I am doing with my car with others on this forum. Some like it and some don't, you fall in with the latter, good for you :)

Your comment about not doing the work myself would seem like jealousy to some people, but I see where you are coming from based on the limited information that you have to hand. I am project manager and architect on this build, I have a vision of what I want to achieve and I have the hands on experience and confidence in rebuilding all sorts of cars (not just Elan's) to be able motivate skilled professionals to work outside their comfort zone to make this vision possible in a very short period of time.

I wouldn't enjoy a car that had been built to anothers standards and specification, so no thanks to buying something already done. And who said this was about money?


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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:33 am

richgilb wrote:why don't you just buy a TVR?


Errr.... because I already have one?
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:41 am

Steve

Are you in the market for a Coupe? If so make Alan an offer he can't refuse so he doesn't cut the Elan. If you don't or don?t know some one that will than I don't see what you are crying about. One third of Elan's were built as Coupe's and I don't see the problem other than the folks in England want to pay a lot of cash for those drop heads or early roadsters to leave the coupe's for folks that want to have a bit of fun. Take a look at Mark Huffman's S2 roadster.
elan-racing-f12/mark-huffman-mod-elan-not-for-the-purists-t20028.html
This is what has kept the Elan alive for 45 years. They are easy to mod and have a blast with. Although fun with a 113 hp they are a hell of a lot more fun with 50% to double that. Yep, you can buy all of that new but I think you miss the point of planning and building the Elan YOU want. It costs the same or more to rebuild an Elan to stock as it left the factory (most are far better restored) or into a hot rod Elan. One you can take to shows and pose with. The other can put a massive grin on your face that returns each time you think about the look one someone?s face that you just put a hurt on and left for dead on the side of the road and wondering what happened. I like them either way and like having both to suit my mood.
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PostPost by: Steve G » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:02 am

It's your car so you can do what ever you like with it (you must be glad you have my permission now!) I was just trying to dissuade you, if I could. You posted on a Lotus Elan forum so must have expected some mixed responses to putting an F20C engine into an Elan.

I hope you enjoy project managing this task, it should be fun and the end result will be interesting. I am not sure how you are going to successfully translate a minimum of 237bhp to useful traction without ruining the fluidity and balance of the car by fitting modern, wide section rubber.

I love the Honda engines (still think the B18C is the best) but have you considered what putting an engine weighing 158kg will do to the Elan? That's an extra 100kg over the twin cam isn't it? I'm sure it will be pretty nose heavy. Even though the F20C (or the US 2.2 litre F22C) makes more bhp/litre than any other production 4 cylinder engine there are better engines for power/weight. As money does not seem to be an issue, have you considered a K Series K2000 engine? it weighs significantly less (97kg fully dressed) and puts out 293bhp at a similarly stratospheric 8,500rpm. It will also fit better in the car (I have seen an F20C in a Seven/Westfield type car and there's not much room to spare!) This is if you must stick with natural aspiration, because as you are altering the fundamental ethos and character of a car so wildly you shouldn't rule out much lighter and smaller forced induction units.

Good Luck!

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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:58 am

Steve,
Thanks for the best wishes. We realise the power/weight implications very well. Interestingly the Duratec 2.0L engine is lighter than a zetec or twincam, if we can make that fit it will be the engine of choice. VTEC's as I recall deliver comparatively little torque at low rev's making them a bit of a pussycat engine i.e one that doesn't always have it's claws out, so coupled with advanced engine management and a rear wheel drive layout it's not a problem. Frankly we have already discounted the Honda route and will leave that to the Elise boys to play with, shame because they sound so great on full chat.

Could you check your maths and figures regarding the weight of a twincam being 100 kilos less than 158kg? I'm sure it took two of us to lift a twincam last time we removed one, Chapman was all about performance through lightness but 58 kilos for a twincam engine would be really good even for him!

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