S4 FHC soon to be DHC : Please see new MODS forum for update

[richgilb]

Track days? 1. This is enough. My car will plug the experience gaps with its superior handling.

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

I'm just popping out to get some some Beer & Crisps in

[Spyder fan]

Track days? 1. This is enough. My car will plug the experience gaps with its superior handling.

Rich,

Legoland Windsor it is then It was good enough for Lewis Hamilton, so should be fine for you to take me on!

[richgilb]

I've got ten years on you, Grandad. Parkinson's and Alzheimers will balance things out

[billwill]

<billwill draws up comfy armchair to watch the fight/race>

[Spyder fan]

Fight update,
please see parallel fisticuffs on adjacent thread elan-photos-f18/who-has-building-zetec-elan-t18863.html
starts end of page 3 with innocent comment by the non agressive owner of a +2 Zetec stating that Elise's are easy meat for a zetec +2, for some reason a new owner of a hairdressers car otherwise known as an MX5 has stated that his car is much much better balanced than an Elise and far more powerful therefore I won't find his shopping trolley so easy to get past---- sad really the sort of delusional characters that pass by here

[Mark B]

Sorry to interupt Alan and Rich's handbag fight but thought I'd better reply to Johns brake question!

Ok the smartpads I and many others found them to lack feel and bite, they felt too wooden for my liking so I tried various others which I was happy with.
4 pots don't squeal generally just because they're 4 pots, the poly A and poly E pads will squeal though at light pedal applications as they have no paint or anti squeal backing on them (they are a high temp race pad).

Bleeding them you just use the top 2 nipples & leave the bottom ones alone, they have them at both ends as it's a radial mount caliper so it can be used on either side (ie not handed).

If you put the wilwoods on with the smart pads you probably wouldn't a huge difference (if any) in braking power, you may notice improved braking pedal progression (ie feel upto the point of lock) because you have 4 smaller pistons instead of 2 bigger pistons and you would save alot of unsprung weight. If you put them on with one of the other pads -poly A or E, Mintex M1144, Ferodo DS2500 you would notice a much better improvement though.

Just one point though if you were to use Poly A's with a standard road tyre you are far more prone to locking the wheels, they should really be used with a sticky tyre -I used them with toyo R888's on my westfield.


Cheers,
Mark.

(Ok Alan you can get back to throwing rotten eggs again...)

Hiya John,

No problem I'll send you an email in the next few days with some details, and then perhaps add some details to the other thread to help future builders....

Just to answer a couple of q's tho...The gearboxes are getting rareish in breakers yards, the Scorpio was only made for a few years although I know of two or three locally. It's only the scorpio which has the starter on the inlet (o/s)btw. However they do come up on ebay and also when ford stopped making them Mitchell Cotts began where they left off, so you can still buy them new....at a price!

The easiest way is to find one in a breakers or wait untill a westfield owner changes to a type 9 quaife box, I know of one which will be coming up for sale in the future as a friend has just bought a sequential box for his westfield.

Reg the wilwoods, I've fitted lots of them over the years and am a fan, just be carefull with your pad selection though, the standard "smart" pads are rubbish, much better with either poly E, mintex or ferodo ds2500 if they do them for your particular caliper. If you have powerlites they have just started doing mintex and ferodos for them now...

Cheers,
Mark.

Hi Mark,

here I am again, asking for your Wilwood Brakes experience.
My Zetec S4 lost it's Brake Servo when the space was needed to fit a wider Radiator in the Nose of the Car.
Initially the standard (reconditioned) Elan Calipers with new Disks were used.
Too much pedal pressure was needed so some expensive pads were fitted with hardly any noticeable difference.
These were replaced with +2 Brakes, again reconditioned & new Disks.
They were also disappointing, so I bought a 4 Pot Wilwood set up from Rally Design, as follows:-
BK23M Caterham/Spitfire 265 x 10mm Brake Kit.
The Disks are slotted with the additional cross drilling.
150-8813KJ Powerliite Smart Pads.

So here are the questions:-
1. In what way are the Smart Pads rubbish? (I have 2 brand new sets, hence the question, although they were not too expensive)
2. The +2 Brakes turned out to be quite good, they just took a long time to bed in, so how much improvement can I expect by unpacking the new Wilwoods & fitting them to the car with the delivered Pads & your preferred Pads?
3. I've read that 4 Pots squeal a lot, is this something to be anticipated?
4. Each side if the Wilwood Calipers has its own Bleed Nipple; is there a preferred order for bleeding?

Hope you can help.
Cheers
John

[Spyder fan]

Mark,
Well done for bringing some sanity back, I will start a new thread on Free Parking for the Mazda versus Elan thing and ignore comments left elsewhere. I think that there are a lot of people following this thread who are genuinely interested and who might be a bit bemused at the banter between Rich & myself. Hopefully in the next month the engine and box will be trial fitted and we will be able to see if a special bonnet is needed, photo's of this will be posted as soon as possible.

Regards to all

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Sorry to interupt Alan and Rich's handbag fight but thought I'd better reply to Johns brake question!

Ok the smartpads I and many others found them to lack feel and bite, they felt too wooden for my liking so I tried various others which I was happy with.
4 pots don't squeal generally just because they're 4 pots, the poly A and poly E pads will squeal though at light pedal applications as they have no paint or anti squeal backing on them (they are a high temp race pad).

Bleeding them you just use the top 2 nipples & leave the bottom ones alone, they have them at both ends as it's a radial mount caliper so it can be used on either side (ie not handed).

If you put the wilwoods on with the smart pads you probably wouldn't a huge difference (if any) in braking power, you may notice improved braking pedal progression (ie feel upto the point of lock) because you have 4 smaller pistons instead of 2 bigger pistons and you would save alot of unsprung weight. If you put them on with one of the other pads -poly A or E, Mintex M1144, Ferodo DS2500 you would notice a much better improvement though.

Just one point though if you were to use Poly A's with a standard road tyre you are far more prone to locking the wheels, they should really be used with a sticky tyre -I used them with toyo R888's on my westfield.


Cheers,
Mark.

(Ok Alan you can get back to throwing rotten eggs again...)

Hiya John,

No problem I'll send you an email in the next few days with some details, and then perhaps add some details to the other thread to help future builders....

Just to answer a couple of q's tho...The gearboxes are getting rareish in breakers yards, the Scorpio was only made for a few years although I know of two or three locally. It's only the scorpio which has the starter on the inlet (o/s)btw. However they do come up on ebay and also when ford stopped making them Mitchell Cotts began where they left off, so you can still buy them new....at a price!

The easiest way is to find one in a breakers or wait untill a westfield owner changes to a type 9 quaife box, I know of one which will be coming up for sale in the future as a friend has just bought a sequential box for his westfield.

Reg the wilwoods, I've fitted lots of them over the years and am a fan, just be carefull with your pad selection though, the standard "smart" pads are rubbish, much better with either poly E, mintex or ferodo ds2500 if they do them for your particular caliper. If you have powerlites they have just started doing mintex and ferodos for them now...

Cheers,
Mark.

Hi Mark,

here I am again, asking for your Wilwood Brakes experience.
My Zetec S4 lost it's Brake Servo when the space was needed to fit a wider Radiator in the Nose of the Car.
Initially the standard (reconditioned) Elan Calipers with new Disks were used.
Too much pedal pressure was needed so some expensive pads were fitted with hardly any noticeable difference.
These were replaced with +2 Brakes, again reconditioned & new Disks.
They were also disappointing, so I bought a 4 Pot Wilwood set up from Rally Design, as follows:-
BK23M Caterham/Spitfire 265 x 10mm Brake Kit.
The Disks are slotted with the additional cross drilling.
150-8813KJ Powerliite Smart Pads.

So here are the questions:-
1. In what way are the Smart Pads rubbish? (I have 2 brand new sets, hence the question, although they were not too expensive)
2. The +2 Brakes turned out to be quite good, they just took a long time to bed in, so how much improvement can I expect by unpacking the new Wilwoods & fitting them to the car with the delivered Pads & your preferred Pads?
3. I've read that 4 Pots squeal a lot, is this something to be anticipated?
4. Each side if the Wilwood Calipers has its own Bleed Nipple; is there a preferred order for bleeding?

Hope you can help.
Cheers
John

Many thanks Mark,

your experience is of great help..
I think my best bet is to stick with my +2 front brakes & maybe see if poly A or E, Mintex M1144, Ferodo DS2500 pads are available to suit them?
I'm sure that my braking would gain considerably by that small change.
I think I will cut my losses & sell the unused Wilwoods to someone who really wants some & doesn't want the extra unsprung weight that +2 Brakes bring with them.
Yes the Wilwoods do have 4 bleed Nipples so that they are not "sided".
I think my Photo indicated that.
Yes the upper ones are those that need to be bled, & I suppose the old "furthest away" rule i.e. outer then inner would apply.

Cheers
John

[Spyder fan]

Dear All,

Here are some pictures from today, this is the trial fitting of the engine and gearbox temporarily mounted in the chassis being offered up to the body. This fitment was to prove the height for clearing the standard bonnet/hood is correct and was successful. There are no engine mounts fabricated at the moment hence the engine cants over when it's unsupported, it will however be canted over by about 5 degrees when fitted. The front crossmember on the chassis requires a couple of chunks removing and the anti roll bar mounts will have to be re-sited to allow clearance, the main problem at the moment is finding clearance for the starter motor, which currently fouls the upper chassis rail and intrudes into the passenger footwell, this is due to the type 9 bellhousing having the starter motor fitment high up at 10 oclock (when viewed from the back of the engine), an alternative bellhousing is being sourced and hopefully we can overcome this without having to hack the body and chassis about too much.

Specification is Duratec 2:0 engine, with MCT75 Gearbox(Mitchell Cotts minus integral bellhousing), type 9 bellhousing for Duratec, Raceline sump to help clear the chassis at the bottom, Raceline low line cam cover to help on height.

Is it just me or does that low line cam cover make it look like a BDG?

[richgilb]

what is the Spyder bill so far?

[Spyder fan]

Rich,
Its costing no more than a zetec or a twincam to the same build standard.
You pay your money and take your choice...... Standard....... Modified with zetec....... Or do something new and perhaps a bit more interesting.

[collins_dan]

Alan, I noticed all the old suspension and steering bits for sale, I'm curious what is going in their place? The full spyder set-up or something entirely new. Thanks, Dan

[Spyder fan]

Dan,
Well spotted, I'm having a clearout of the non needed parts in the hope that they are of use to someone restoring to original and also to raise a little cash..... people must like the prices because everything sold within an hour of me putting the advert up

The hubs and uprights we will be using are Ford Sierra parts, this allows the use of balljoints on the front rather than those pesky trunnions and also means we can use the brakes from an XR4i or Cosworth, the wishbones are specially adapted Spyder tubular types and the rear 'A' frames are also Spyder, we also get to use the Spyder top rear 'A' frames to give more rigidity and longevity to the rear struts. This is basically the same setup that is used on the full house Spyder Zetec conversion for the +2. You can read more about it on Spyders web site www.spydercars.co.uk
There's an interesting article on the site regarding building up a full rolling zetec chassis/frame here
page 1 http://www.spydercars.co.uk/new_project ... rt_3-1.htm
page 2 http://www.spydercars.co.uk/new_project ... rt_3-2.htm
page 3 http://www.spydercars.co.uk/new_project ... rt_3-3.htm
page 4 http://www.spydercars.co.uk/new_project ... rt_3-4.htm

Regards

[richgilb]

Dan,
Well spotted, I'm having a clearout of the non needed parts in the hope that they are of use to someone restoring to original and also to raise a little cash..... people must like the prices because everything sold within an hour of me putting the advert

This project cleaning you out then, Alan? I am moving house next week and we'll be needing some doorhandles and the like. If I can be of assistance I'd gladly put some business your way.