S4 FHC soon to be DHC : Please see new MODS forum for update

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Mark,

that does look great.
I assume it's the "Full Monty" Spyder Zetec conversion?
Those front brakes are whoppers, are they Spyder standard Spec. or an (expensive) added extra?
The Steering Rack looks good, did you just polish the Steel or is it plated?
It looks like you're using a concentric Clutch Cylinder, what make is it & is it just a Nut & Bolt job or is some machining required?
If possible can you post a Photo of the Speedo drive on the G/Box?
That was one of the major stumbling blocks that deterred me from fitting an MT75 when I built my Car.
From which Car did you source your MT75 in order to get the Starter Motor on the correct side & possibly also the Ford concentric Clutch Cylinder

Cheers
John

[Mark B]

Hi John,

Thanks for the kind comments, yes it's a "full" spyder conversion. I was originally going to use part lotus and part spyder, but in the end I opted for the full sierra diff (lsd), drivetrain etc for durability. By the time I'd beefed up the lotus rear drivetrain & fitted an lsd the parts alone would've been ?2k and I still would've been slightly concerned about breaking some of it!

The rear suspension uses sierra diff, shortened driveshafts, sierra cv's, hubs with spyder uprights, spyder wishbones -adjustable toe lower & adjustable camber rosejointed top w/bone. I'm using lightweight golf rear calipers with rally design grooved & drilled sierra discs. Spyder normally use standard sierra calipers & discs.

Front is spyder wishbones with adjustable camber & caster top (rosejointed), spyder uprights and sierra hubs, brakes are wilwood midilite 4 pots with rally design grooved & drilled sierra discs, again spyder use the standard sierra calipers and discs but I wanted these for good braking performance and to save a little weight. The wilwoods are also from rally design, I deal with them a fair bit & they're very good, the wilwoods are quite reasonably priced tbh compared with ap or alcon especially.

Spyder supplied protech shocks all round with adjustable combined bump/rebound and ride height, I also went for superflex poly bushes all round.
The steering rack is a new item (plated so nice and shiny!) and is a left hand drive mini item used upside down in a rhd car as per what spyder use but I went for a quickrack, 2.2 or 2.4 ratio can't remember which exactly...

The gearbox and concentric slave cylinder is from a ford Scorpio (remember them?) and is the same as I used in my westfield, but uses spyders own output flange and linkage. (The sierra version has the starter on the opposite side & uses cable clutch actuation).I sourced the box myself, had it rebuilt with a diesel 5th gear cog (slightly higher ratio so better for cruising), fitted a new concentric cylinder (motorfactors) albeit with spacers to get the correct throw onto the clutch fingers- I forgot initially and had to take the engine & box out again, doh! The only other mod to the con cylinder is to remove the ford pipe fitting and screw in a standard 10mm fitting and line. No machining required though.

Reg the speedo drive, it has an electronic (5v) output from the scorpio, but spyder fit their own on the o/s of the box using a normally unused flange section, they fit a right angled speedo drive to mate to the original smiths clocks with a cable drive but I'm using electronic gauges so won't be using either as I'll have a sensor on the rear diff output bolts. I'll happily post up or send you a pic of the ford setup on my box or I think I may have a shot of spyders demo chassis with the way they normally do it.
If you need any part numbers or advice on mt75 to zetec again no problem as I've been using both for years in westfields. You can pm me or email me at [email protected]

Cheers,
Mark.

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Hi Mark,

many thanks for taking so much trouble to answer my questions.
I'll send my e-mail address per PM but the Part numbers you have on record may be of interest to other Forum Members contemplating or doing a similar conversion.
At the time I converted there was little or no information to be had on fitting a Scopio MT75 G/Box.
Spyder told me to get a LHD version o get the Starter Motor onto the correct side; but all a bit airy Fairy back then.
How difficult/easy is it to get hold of the "correct" G/Box, are they plentiful?
A list of all of the needed bits & suppliers to complete the job would be great but possibly better on the "Who's building or has a Zetec Elan; +2" Thread
For my S4 I have a set of Willwood 4 Pot front Brakes, also from Rally Design although they are compatible with the +2 set up not being the thicker vented Disks which you have.
I've not fitted them because the +2 Brakes which were to be replaced, decided to work well after a long bedding in period.
Maybe they'll go on if I decide to use the Car "more enthusiastically"
The necessary mod's to the MT75 Clutch release system & the Speedo take off are of particular interest so if you could do the honours please?

Cheers
John

[Mark B]

Hiya John,

No problem I'll send you an email in the next few days with some details, and then perhaps add some details to the other thread to help future builders....

Just to answer a couple of q's tho...The gearboxes are getting rareish in breakers yards, the Scorpio was only made for a few years although I know of two or three locally. It's only the scorpio which has the starter on the inlet (o/s)btw. However they do come up on ebay and also when ford stopped making them Mitchell Cotts began where they left off, so you can still buy them new....at a price!

The easiest way is to find one in a breakers or wait untill a westfield owner changes to a type 9 quaife box, I know of one which will be coming up for sale in the future as a friend has just bought a sequential box for his westfield.

Reg the wilwoods, I've fitted lots of them over the years and am a fan, just be carefull with your pad selection though, the standard "smart" pads are rubbish, much better with either poly E, mintex or ferodo ds2500 if they do them for your particular caliper. If you have powerlites they have just started doing mintex and ferodos for them now...

Cheers,
Mark.

[Spyder fan]

Here's the latest progress as of 16th August 2010, as can be seen below the car has become a bit draughty.....

The eagle eyed amongst you will notice modifications to the engine bay to accept the Duratec, and doors that actually seem to fit the body shell

Regards

[richgilb]

My MX5 will go round any circuit faster than this car. I am prepared to bet the entry fee on it.

[Spyder fan]

Rich,

Saw your old +2 at Spyder last week, the new owner seems to be pleased with it. Is the MX5 owners club helpful, or full of moaning old codgers like lotuselan.net?

I think there might be a few members here who would dispute your MX5's capabilities to beat a well set up and well driven standard Elan on a track: you frankly will have no chance against 220bhp and 800 kilos with full suspension and brakes package; do a youtube search for MX5 beats Elan and then Elan beats MX5 and see how many results you get for each.

Looking forward to some banter on this, things have been too quiet lately.

Cheers slow coach!

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

My MX5 will go round any circuit faster than this car. I am prepared to bet the entry fee on it.

Well looking at the Photos it doesn't appear to have an Engine or a G/Box.
Would I be permitted to push it?
If so I'll take up the challenge
John

[Spyder fan]

My MX5 will go round any circuit faster than this car. I am prepared to bet the entry fee on it.

Well looking at the Photos it doesn't appear to have an Engine or a G/Box.
Would I be permitted to push it?
If so I'll take up the challenge
John

John,
Permission granted: Lightened S4 with Pelly power versus MX5 BBR Turbo; can't wait!


BTW: engine is sitting on a crate and gearbox is on order along with some trick stuff like sump pan and lowered rocker cover, looks like the Duratec really will happen without ruining the bonnet line.

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

BTW: engine is sitting on a crate and gearbox is on order along with some trick stuff like sump pan and lowered rocker cover, looks like the Duratec really will happen without ruining the bonnet line.

How about some Photos of that Engine & those modified bits?
Sounds interesting.

Cheers
John

PS Am I allowed a tin of Spinach

[Spyder fan]

John,
I would suggest spinach and Weetabix would be most appropriate.

As for cam covers look here for a standard dressed duratec http://www.raceline.co.uk/products/inde ... tegoryID=1
And here for the lowline cam cover http://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part ... tegoryID=1

Not sure what sump is being used yet, Andy has a few options ordered in or borrowed to try.

We are trying to use as many off the shelf albeit specialist components as possible. Mr Rich (ex +2) Gilbert is sceptical of the power output possible from a Duratec, but have a look at this pdf download, you will see that 220BHP is a pretty modest output for this engine and only requires cams and uprated rod bolts to acheive with reliability. http://www.raceline.co.uk/Uploads/produ ... 202007.pdf

Things should start to move quickly now; I will post build photo's as we go.

regards

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

That Cam Cover does look nice but does come at a price.
I presume you won't be showing the Bills to "her indoors"
Plenty of power to be gained from that Engine, no doubt & some good management should maintain tractability, up to a point.

Yup I'll go for the Weetabix; that'll give me the extra "go" to paint a white line on the track behind me for you to follow

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Hiya John,

No problem I'll send you an email in the next few days with some details, and then perhaps add some details to the other thread to help future builders....

Just to answer a couple of q's tho...The gearboxes are getting rareish in breakers yards, the Scorpio was only made for a few years although I know of two or three locally. It's only the scorpio which has the starter on the inlet (o/s)btw. However they do come up on ebay and also when ford stopped making them Mitchell Cotts began where they left off, so you can still buy them new....at a price!

The easiest way is to find one in a breakers or wait untill a westfield owner changes to a type 9 quaife box, I know of one which will be coming up for sale in the future as a friend has just bought a sequential box for his westfield.

Reg the wilwoods, I've fitted lots of them over the years and am a fan, just be carefull with your pad selection though, the standard "smart" pads are rubbish, much better with either poly E, mintex or ferodo ds2500 if they do them for your particular caliper. If you have powerlites they have just started doing mintex and ferodos for them now...

Cheers,
Mark.

Hi Mark,

here I am again, asking for your Wilwood Brakes experience.
My Zetec S4 lost it's Brake Servo when the space was needed to fit a wider Radiator in the Nose of the Car.
Initially the standard (reconditioned) Elan Calipers with new Disks were used.
Too much pedal pressure was needed so some expensive pads were fitted with hardly any noticeable difference.
These were replaced with +2 Brakes, again reconditioned & new Disks.
They were also disappointing, so I bought a 4 Pot Wilwood set up from Rally Design, as follows:-
BK23M Caterham/Spitfire 265 x 10mm Brake Kit.
The Disks are slotted with the additional cross drilling.
150-8813KJ Powerliite Smart Pads.

So here are the questions:-
1. In what way are the Smart Pads rubbish? (I have 2 brand new sets, hence the question, although they were not too expensive)
2. The +2 Brakes turned out to be quite good, they just took a long time to bed in, so how much improvement can I expect by unpacking the new Wilwoods & fitting them to the car with the delivered Pads & your preferred Pads?
3. I've read that 4 Pots squeal a lot, is this something to be anticipated?
4. Each side if the Wilwood Calipers has its own Bleed Nipple; is there a preferred order for bleeding?

Hope you can help.
Cheers
John

[richgilb]

Rich,

I think there might be a few members here who would dispute your MX5's capabilities to beat a well set up and well driven standard Elan on a track: you frankly will have no chance against 220bhp and 800 kilos with full suspension and brakes package; do a youtube search for MX5 beats Elan and then Elan beats MX5 and see how many results you get for each.

Looking forward to some banter on this, things have been too quiet lately.

yawn yawn, just let me know when it is finished, name a venue and date and we'll see.

[Spyder fan]

Rich,
How many track days have you done? I need to know this so that I can choose an appropriate day/session as I wouldn't want to take advantage of your inexperience by going for the full on open pit lane events that I normally attend. If you haven't done any or just one or two you will need a graded event with novice, intermediate and just plain bonkers sessions throughout the day. Mind you, it will be a bit novel for me to go out with the novices again, there's probably going to be less traffic on the motorway to get to the event