A couple more Q's

[types26/36]

James, I dont really know why you want your seats not to tip safety ? yer right! ........a hell of a lot of Elan seats do tip up so I'm not convinced its such a big safety factor......but thats my opinion.
Is you car defiantly a Sprint? has it got the holes in the floor where runners might have been?
Anyway here is a pic showing the seat tag and also a pic of the skid plates I fitted to replace the original runners.

[jimbo]

James, I dont really know why you want your seats not to tip safety ? yer right! ........a hell of a lot of Elan seats do tip up so I'm not convinced its such a big safety factor......but thats my opinion.

Brian, It's simple really - the plan is for my three year old son to make occasional short distance journeys in the car. However, prior to that happening I want to do my very best to make sure he's as safe as possible, accepting that most things will only make a marginal difference.

To my mind an anchored seat will be more secure as the belt will only be taking the weight of my son and his car seat, not the weight of the seat as well. I am also considering adding a roll cage and sidebars (which I know are considered too low to be effective).

I realise that the car will never be as safe as a modern vehicle (by a long way), but I want be sure I've been as careful as possible. When considering which classic to buy the Elan was high on the list as it has a lot of active safety features compared to its contemporaries such as good acceleration, good handling, good braking etc. Plus I've also always fancied one and having already had Elises and Caterham's, it felt like time to try an Elan.

In a lot of ways transporting my son in the car scares me senseless, but then again, I'd rather he was in a well driven Elan than a poorly driven MPV.

As you can probably tell, this is a big deal to me so any small things I can do to improve safety will get done.

JIs you car defiantly a Sprint? has it got the holes in the floor where runners might have been?

I hope so! If not, Paul Matty is about to get a car deposited back on his forecourt!

As best I know it's a Feb '72 Sprint that started life as a FHC before being converted to a DHC - I suspect in 1991 when it was fully rebuilt. I figure/hope that the differences in things like the seats will have crept in at rebuild time.

Cheers,

James

[ppnelan]

I get the impression that the non-tipping seats was a US safety thing which then filtered through to later Elans, whether Sprints or not...

If you work out 'the physics', you may find it is unlikely to tip in an accident anyway - my experience is that they are difficult to tip up when you are TRYING to do so when stationary...

My almost-5-year-old has travelled in an Elan since he was young enough to be in a rearward-facing seat fitted behind the front seats surrounded by a 'modified' parcel shelf. He has progressed through a seat with it's own seatbelts to now having just a booster. And he loves it

Matthew

[sk178ta]

If you enter any rallies run by the HRCR you will fail scrutineering if your seats tip, though I too struggle to accept that that has any bearing on safety.
Jim

[jimbo]

Matthew,

Thanks for the reply. It's good to know I'm not the only reckless parent out there!

We are having a hard time keeping him out of the car at the moment. The fact its had a few leaks has helped as he's been told he can't go in it until it's stopped wetting itself AND we get a seat that fits. I caught him having a quiet little word with it the other day about the rights and wrongs of 'wetting the garage floor'!

Do you use the fixed 3 point belt? Also do you have any advice on seats? He has a Recaro seat in my everyday car and a Britax Isofix in the wife's car, neither of which fit very well in the Elan seat.

The Britax is OK, but the belt buckles end up either being pushed against his stomach or fouling on the guides by his hips. Ideally I want to stick with a high back version, as the shoulder level belt guide will help keep the belt in the right place across his chest.

I was thinking of one of these, but as the car's not mobile at the moment I've not had a chance to take it and him for a fitting.
http://www.britax.co.uk/ProductDetail.jsp?pid=29&cid=9&type=1

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

James

PS - Checked my Chassis no. in Brian Bucklands book. It appears I do have a Sprint ...

[cliveyboy]

Jimbo
I have the seat runners out of my Sprint at the moment they are the non tilt type. (I am in the process of making myself a set of stainless steel ones). I can send you a picture or sketch.
I have been talking to a couple of child seat companies and Recaro stated that if I wanted to fit a child seat into the Elan I would need to fit inertia reel belts.
Clive

[jimbo]

Jimbo
I have been talking to a couple of child seat companies and Recaro stated that if I wanted to fit a child seat into the Elan I would need to fit inertia reel belts.
Clive

Clive,

Did they give a reason for that? I can't see that an intertia belt is any safer ... it's just easier to deal with. Race cars have fixed belts so it can't really be on safety grounds. Maybe they think an interia reel will pull tighter to the childs chest ... personally I prefer to pull the belt tight myself to stop the little chap wriggling out. He has never compained about being 'pinned' in - probably as he was used to it with the previous stage seat which had an integral harness.

Ironically the Recaro seat we use in my everyday car has a special clip at shoulder level specifically to prevent the belt from recoiling! Smoke and mirrors ...

In my experience, child seat manufacturers are very reluctant to endorse anything other than bog standard fitments in bog standard cars. I had a devil of a time getting a seat for my road car because none of the manufactuers had crash tested it in my specific model variant.

Britax wouldn't endorse the use of their Isofix seat in the wife's VW as its a Bora (a Golf with a boot), but they would endorse it for the Golf even though it is an indentical fitment. Instead, they recommended we use their non-Isofix (and therefore less safe) seat! 3 months later they were saying the opposite!

In the end I had to rely on my judgement - something we do every day as a parent!

James

[richardcox_lotus]

I looked into Child seat fittings a while ago, & came to the conclusion that I'd have to wait to get a booster seat - my child's only now just at the tipping point of previous seat / booster stage.

I tried a number of different child seat types about 3 years ago (on my unmodified DHC Sprint - i.e. with static belts) & couldn't get any to fit to my satisfaction.

I think a booster should be OK, but the main thing is....how narrow is the base ? Most of the ones I tried were too wide, & would sit on the seat bolsters, rather than on the seat cushion, within the bolsters. If anyone gets one that works, then please let us know !

[jimbo]

The Evolva Isofix from the wife's car sits quite nicely in the seat and does not rest on the bolsters. The trouble was the integral arm rests meant I had to move the seat back so far that the buckles then rested on his midrift.

I am pretty confident that the model shown above will work as its the same base as the wifes, without the Isofix mount and arm rests. I should be able to slide the seat fully forward which will move the buckles back relative to the side of the seat.

It's effectively just a high backed booster with the advantage of positioning the belt in the right place at shoulder level ... which I think is essential with a non intertia solution and for a car without head rests.

I'll keep you posted!

James

[Frank Howard]

This thread brings to mind an incident that happened probably 15 years ago. I live 5 blocks from a lake which is surrounded by a public road. The speeds around this lake rarely exceed 25 m.p.h. On occasion, I would take one of my daughters for a ride, usually including a lap around the lake. As my 4 year old had twin 5 year old playmates who lived across the street, I invited them to join us for a lake drive.

"Do you have seatbelts in the back?", inquired the mother. "No mam, I don't even have seats" I replied. I assured her that "One of them would have to ride in the front with a seat belt on, but the lucky one would be able to stand behind the seats next to my daughter with the top down." "No thanks" replied the mother. "That's too dangerous." So my daughter hopped in the front and we took the lake tour without them.

About 15 minutes after we returned, I spotted one of the twins coming down their driveway........on the back of her father's Harley. I guess she was a lot safer though. You see, she was wearing a helmet.

[types26/36]

No reflection on your driving capabilities Frank but maybe she considered Harley riders/drivers inherently better drivers then Lotus pilots

[cliveyboy]

If I remember rightly the reason for inertia reels to be fitted was that the seats are designed specifically to be used with this type of seat belt and how they react in a crash. Also the main reason is probably the one that has caused me most problems fitting child seats in modern cars.
"Buckle crush" A child seat when fitted properly must not have the buckle touching the seat as it causes point loading and failure of the seat or buckle in an accident.
I had to change the wifes Alfa for a newer one with isofix because of this problem. (and we tried a lot of child seats).
Clive

[jimbo]

We have an excellent child car seat safety center near us - not the normal spotty oiks at Halfords who will sell you anything.

They have been great with all the seats we've had thus far, and won't sell one without having tried it in the car with the child present. I'll see what they say ... fingers crossed they don't say no go - my three year old can sulk like a good'un when he wants to!



Ps - how many more posts before I get second gear?

[oldokie]

I believe the 'magic' number is 50.

[ppnelan]

I (well, my son) used a Britax Freeway seat for a while. It would have fitted better in a non-US-spec seat without a built-in headrest but it was OK. The car has fixed seat belts and the buckle was VERY close to the side of the seat - the seat position & belt length had to be just right for it to 'feel' safe enough to me...

Now he has a booster seat. It was a very cheap Halfords one, but I'm not sure what make - it has a label on the cover that reads 'CAM Il Modo Del Bambino' (world of the baby?) & 'Made in Italy' but that's all. There was minimal packaging & maybe some instructions which have gone. It is best to find one with a narrow base, and ask to try it in the car.

It's finding a child seat for the back of a +2 that's tricky as there used to be only one type that fitted and it could only be obtained secondhand, which most people frown upon...
I remember travelling to school in an Elan sitting astride the transmission tunnel behind the seats...

Matthew