Lotus Elan

WIPER PROBLEM

PostPost by: Piers James » Wed May 29, 2002 3:49 pm

I just purchased a '70 Elan +2 and the wipers don't work properly.

With no load (stuck up in the air) they will operate but if they are dropped
on the windscreen they bog down and won't run - even if the windscreen is
wet.

Any ideas on where to start the repair? Duff motor that can't develop the
torque? Problem with the mechanism?

Any help would be appreciated.

Piers James
Piers James
 

PostPost by: c.beijersbergen » Wed May 29, 2002 4:41 pm

Hello to all,

This is not an answer or an advise to Piers, but merely my support to the
question. My '70 S4 Elan has wipers that almost come to a standstill even on
a wet window. If you know Dutch summers, you will understand what this
means. So If anybody comes up with some advise I would be grateful as well!

kind regards,

Cor Beijersbergen

'70 S4 SE FHC
c.beijersbergen
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 172
Joined: 21 Sep 2003

PostPost by: daves56 » Wed May 29, 2002 5:00 pm

I think we've all had this problem. It's really a bad design. The motors
are the same as used on the MGBs so they can be bought new. However to clean
the wiper system correctly will mean removing the dash to get to the
wheelboxes.
But to start off, I would first try lubricating the cable. You can pull
off the two wipers, remove the clamp around the motor and disconnect the
motor from the outer sleeve (tubing). At this point if you pull the motor
away the cable will also come out. Set the motor and cable on clean
newspaper. Now grasp the knurled knobs on the wiper wheelboxes and turn.
You'll probably notice that they turn freely for about 120 degrees then bind
slightly. The bushings tend to wear in a localized area. You should be able
to oil just under the knurl and spin the knurl to loosen the wheelbox. Be
careful not to get too much oil on the paintwork.
Try to remove as much of the old grease as possible from the cable. After
30 years it's going to look and feel like peanut butter. You can reapply new
grease to the cable or can try motorcycle chain lube. (I think chain lube
works the best.) You might also want to check the motor. The case can be
removed and those bushings can be lubricated. As well as the motor/cable
mechanism. Next put some newspaper inside the car in the footwells (in case
of lubricate dripping down). Reinstall the cable and motor assembly and run
with the wipers off for a while. Reinstall wipers, cross your fingers and
see if it works.
In the event that it works better but not great (which it will). Buy a new
motor. If you won't be driving in the rain but need it to pass an inspection
you can buy weaker wiper springs (they hold the wiper blades to the
windscreen) at any hardware store. The wipers will move enough to pass an
inspection but will make the wipers useless in the rain. I have the original
spring on the driver's side wiper and a weaker spring on the passenger
side.
Good Luck,
Dave Sutcliffe
69 +2

-----Original Message-----
From: Piers James [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:50 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


I just purchased a '70 Elan +2 and the wipers don't work properly.

With no load (stuck up in the air) they will operate but if they are dropped
on the windscreen they bog down and won't run - even if the windscreen is
wet.

Any ideas on where to start the repair? Duff motor that can't develop the
torque? Problem with the mechanism?

Any help would be appreciated.

Piers James








daves56
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 150
Joined: 13 Oct 2003

PostPost by: ardee_selby » Wed May 29, 2002 5:39 pm

David,
Did you not also clean the commutator and renew
brushes/springs?
Cheers - Richard

--- "Sutcliffe, David" <***@***.***> wrote:
I think we've all had this problem. It's really a
bad design. The motors
are the same as used on the MGBs so they can be
bought new. However to clean
the wiper system correctly will mean removing the
dash to get to the
wheelboxes.
But to start off, I would first try lubricating
the cable. You can pull
off the two wipers, remove the clamp around the
motor and disconnect the
motor from the outer sleeve (tubing). At this point
if you pull the motor
away the cable will also come out. Set the motor and
cable on clean
newspaper. Now grasp the knurled knobs on the wiper
wheelboxes and turn.
You'll probably notice that they turn freely for
about 120 degrees then bind
slightly. The bushings tend to wear in a localized
area. You should be able
to oil just under the knurl and spin the knurl to
loosen the wheelbox. Be
careful not to get too much oil on the paintwork.
Try to remove as much of the old grease as
possible from the cable. After
30 years it's going to look and feel like peanut
butter. You can reapply new
grease to the cable or can try motorcycle chain
lube. (I think chain lube
works the best.) You might also want to check the
motor. The case can be
removed and those bushings can be lubricated. As
well as the motor/cable
mechanism. Next put some newspaper inside the car in
the footwells (in case
of lubricate dripping down). Reinstall the cable and
motor assembly and run
with the wipers off for a while. Reinstall wipers,
cross your fingers and
see if it works.
In the event that it works better but not great
(which it will). Buy a new
motor. If you won't be driving in the rain but need
it to pass an inspection
you can buy weaker wiper springs (they hold the
wiper blades to the
windscreen) at any hardware store. The wipers will
move enough to pass an
inspection but will make the wipers useless in the
rain. I have the original
spring on the driver's side wiper and a weaker
spring on the passenger
side.
Good Luck,
Dave Sutcliffe
69 +2

-----Original Message-----
From: Piers James [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:50 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


I just purchased a '70 Elan +2 and the wipers don't
work properly.

With no load (stuck up in the air) they will operate
but if they are dropped
on the windscreen they bog down and won't run - even
if the windscreen is
wet.

Any ideas on where to start the repair? Duff motor
that can't develop the
torque? Problem with the mechanism?

Any help would be appreciated.

Piers James


To Unsubscribe send an email to:
***@***.***

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. Read
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LotusElan.net and the email
author, all rights reserved.
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm

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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Wed May 29, 2002 6:09 pm

James
try the main earth(if you are having problems on both speeds)this should be
on tag 1 on the wiper motor-the connector not in a block of four,might also
be wise to check the battery feed(this is on terminal 4 of the wiper motor)
a good 12v between them is a good sign
john
68plus2



-----Original Message-----
From: Piers James [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 29 May 2002 16:50
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


I just purchased a '70 Elan +2 and the wipers don't work properly.

With no load (stuck up in the air) they will operate but if they are dropped
on the windscreen they bog down and won't run - even if the windscreen is
wet.

Any ideas on where to start the repair? Duff motor that can't develop the
torque? Problem with the mechanism?

Any help would be appreciated.

Piers James








User avatar
john.p.clegg
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Posts: 5711
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: daves56 » Wed May 29, 2002 6:24 pm

Richard,
Good point. The brushes and contacts can be cleaned when the motor's
apart. But since I've never gotten the wipers to operate perfectly I can't
really say what corrections will definitely work. I suspect the major
problem with the design is the 90 degree bend in the cable. The motor
requires a great deal of torque to move the wipers. Several amps flow
through some rather thin wiring. I was able to increase the efficiency
(greatly) of my electric windows by adding a thick braided wire from the
motor to chassis ground. So it might be possible to better the ground on the
electric wiper motor (if the case is grounded). Also adding a relay to
activate the wiper motor may help but some thought would have to be given so
the wipers still "park".
Dave Sutcliffe

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Selby [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:39 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


David,
Did you not also clean the commutator and renew
brushes/springs?
Cheers - Richard

--- "Sutcliffe, David" <***@***.***> wrote:
I think we've all had this problem. It's really a
bad design. The motors
are the same as used on the MGBs so they can be
bought new. However to clean
the wiper system correctly will mean removing the
dash to get to the
wheelboxes.
But to start off, I would first try lubricating
the cable. You can pull
off the two wipers, remove the clamp around the
motor and disconnect the
motor from the outer sleeve (tubing). At this point
if you pull the motor
away the cable will also come out. Set the motor and
cable on clean
newspaper. Now grasp the knurled knobs on the wiper
wheelboxes and turn.
You'll probably notice that they turn freely for
about 120 degrees then bind
slightly. The bushings tend to wear in a localized
area. You should be able
to oil just under the knurl and spin the knurl to
loosen the wheelbox. Be
careful not to get too much oil on the paintwork.
Try to remove as much of the old grease as
possible from the cable. After
30 years it's going to look and feel like peanut
butter. You can reapply new
grease to the cable or can try motorcycle chain
lube. (I think chain lube
works the best.) You might also want to check the
motor. The case can be
removed and those bushings can be lubricated. As
well as the motor/cable
mechanism. Next put some newspaper inside the car in
the footwells (in case
of lubricate dripping down). Reinstall the cable and
motor assembly and run
with the wipers off for a while. Reinstall wipers,
cross your fingers and
see if it works.
In the event that it works better but not great
(which it will). Buy a new
motor. If you won't be driving in the rain but need
it to pass an inspection
you can buy weaker wiper springs (they hold the
wiper blades to the
windscreen) at any hardware store. The wipers will
move enough to pass an
inspection but will make the wipers useless in the
rain. I have the original
spring on the driver's side wiper and a weaker
spring on the passenger
side.
Good Luck,
Dave Sutcliffe
69 +2

-----Original Message-----
From: Piers James [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:50 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


I just purchased a '70 Elan +2 and the wipers don't
work properly.

With no load (stuck up in the air) they will operate
but if they are dropped
on the windscreen they bog down and won't run - even
if the windscreen is
wet.

Any ideas on where to start the repair? Duff motor
that can't develop the
torque? Problem with the mechanism?

Any help would be appreciated.

Piers James


To Unsubscribe send an email to:
***@***.***

The Lotus Elan mailing list is provided by
. Read
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LotusElan.net and the email
author, all rights reserved.
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm

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Posts: 150
Joined: 13 Oct 2003

PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Wed May 29, 2002 8:13 pm

WHAT 90 DEG BEND IN WHAT CABLE?????? YOU MUST BE LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT WIPER MECHANISM THAN I HAVE.

>> ***@***.*** 05/29/02 02:24PM >>>
Richard,

Good point. The brushes and contacts can be cleaned when the motor's
apart. But since I've never gotten the wipers to operate perfectly I can't
really say what corrections will definitely work. I suspect the major
problem with the design is the 90 degree bend in the cable. The motor
requires a great deal of torque to move the wipers. Several amps flow
through some rather thin wiring. I was able to increase the efficiency
(greatly) of my electric windows by adding a thick braided wire from the
motor to chassis ground. So it might be possible to better the ground on the
electric wiper motor (if the case is grounded). Also adding a relay to
activate the wiper motor may help but some thought would have to be given so
the wipers still "park".
Dave Sutcliffe

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Selby [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:39 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


David,
Did you not also clean the commutator and renew
brushes/springs?
Cheers - Richard

--- "Sutcliffe, David" <***@***.***> wrote:
I think we've all had this problem. It's really a
bad design. The motors
are the same as used on the MGBs so they can be
bought new. However to clean
the wiper system correctly will mean removing the
dash to get to the
wheelboxes.
But to start off, I would first try lubricating
the cable. You can pull
off the two wipers, remove the clamp around the
motor and disconnect the
motor from the outer sleeve (tubing). At this point
if you pull the motor
away the cable will also come out. Set the motor and
cable on clean
newspaper. Now grasp the knurled knobs on the wiper
wheelboxes and turn.
You'll probably notice that they turn freely for
about 120 degrees then bind
slightly. The bushings tend to wear in a localized
area. You should be able
to oil just under the knurl and spin the knurl to
loosen the wheelbox. Be
careful not to get too much oil on the paintwork.
Try to remove as much of the old grease as
possible from the cable. After
30 years it's going to look and feel like peanut
butter. You can reapply new
grease to the cable or can try motorcycle chain
lube. (I think chain lube
works the best.) You might also want to check the
motor. The case can be
removed and those bushings can be lubricated. As
well as the motor/cable
mechanism. Next put some newspaper inside the car in
the footwells (in case
of lubricate dripping down). Reinstall the cable and
motor assembly and run
with the wipers off for a while. Reinstall wipers,
cross your fingers and
see if it works.
In the event that it works better but not great
(which it will). Buy a new
motor. If you won't be driving in the rain but need
it to pass an inspection
you can buy weaker wiper springs (they hold the
wiper blades to the
windscreen) at any hardware store. The wipers will
move enough to pass an
inspection but will make the wipers useless in the
rain. I have the original
spring on the driver's side wiper and a weaker
spring on the passenger
side.
Good Luck,
Dave Sutcliffe
69 +2

-----Original Message-----
From: Piers James [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:50 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


I just purchased a '70 Elan +2 and the wipers don't
work properly.

With no load (stuck up in the air) they will operate
but if they are dropped
on the windscreen they bog down and won't run - even
if the windscreen is
wet.

Any ideas on where to start the repair? Duff motor
that can't develop the
torque? Problem with the mechanism?

Any help would be appreciated.

Piers James


To Unsubscribe send an email to:
***@***.***

The Lotus Elan mailing list is provided by
<A href="http://www.lotuselan.net.. Read
the Disclaimer! Copyright? 1999, 2000, 2001
LotusElan.net and the email
author, all rights reserved.
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been
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"Roger Sieling"
 

PostPost by: daves56 » Wed May 29, 2002 9:04 pm

Why are you yelling? The wiper motor in a Plus Two is mounted in the
engine compartment on the upper wheelwell. As the cabling enters the
firewall it makes a 90 degree bend to the wheelboxes. Perhaps you have a
modified system.
Dave Sutcliffe


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 3:13 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


WHAT 90 DEG BEND IN WHAT CABLE?????? YOU MUST BE LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT
WIPER MECHANISM THAN I HAVE.

>> ***@***.*** 05/29/02 02:24PM >>>
Richard,

Good point. The brushes and contacts can be cleaned when the motor's
apart. But since I've never gotten the wipers to operate perfectly I can't
really say what corrections will definitely work. I suspect the major
problem with the design is the 90 degree bend in the cable. The motor
requires a great deal of torque to move the wipers. Several amps flow
through some rather thin wiring. I was able to increase the efficiency
(greatly) of my electric windows by adding a thick braided wire from the
motor to chassis ground. So it might be possible to better the ground on the
electric wiper motor (if the case is grounded). Also adding a relay to
activate the wiper motor may help but some thought would have to be given so
the wipers still "park".
Dave Sutcliffe

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Selby [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:39 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


David,
Did you not also clean the commutator and renew
brushes/springs?
Cheers - Richard

--- "Sutcliffe, David" <***@***.***> wrote:
I think we've all had this problem. It's really a
bad design. The motors
are the same as used on the MGBs so they can be
bought new. However to clean
the wiper system correctly will mean removing the
dash to get to the
wheelboxes.
But to start off, I would first try lubricating
the cable. You can pull
off the two wipers, remove the clamp around the
motor and disconnect the
motor from the outer sleeve (tubing). At this point
if you pull the motor
away the cable will also come out. Set the motor and
cable on clean
newspaper. Now grasp the knurled knobs on the wiper
wheelboxes and turn.
You'll probably notice that they turn freely for
about 120 degrees then bind
slightly. The bushings tend to wear in a localized
area. You should be able
to oil just under the knurl and spin the knurl to
loosen the wheelbox. Be
careful not to get too much oil on the paintwork.
Try to remove as much of the old grease as
possible from the cable. After
30 years it's going to look and feel like peanut
butter. You can reapply new
grease to the cable or can try motorcycle chain
lube. (I think chain lube
works the best.) You might also want to check the
motor. The case can be
removed and those bushings can be lubricated. As
well as the motor/cable
mechanism. Next put some newspaper inside the car in
the footwells (in case
of lubricate dripping down). Reinstall the cable and
motor assembly and run
with the wipers off for a while. Reinstall wipers,
cross your fingers and
see if it works.
In the event that it works better but not great
(which it will). Buy a new
motor. If you won't be driving in the rain but need
it to pass an inspection
you can buy weaker wiper springs (they hold the
wiper blades to the
windscreen) at any hardware store. The wipers will
move enough to pass an
inspection but will make the wipers useless in the
rain. I have the original
spring on the driver's side wiper and a weaker
spring on the passenger
side.
Good Luck,
Dave Sutcliffe
69 +2

-----Original Message-----
From: Piers James [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:50 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


I just purchased a '70 Elan +2 and the wipers don't
work properly.

With no load (stuck up in the air) they will operate
but if they are dropped
on the windscreen they bog down and won't run - even
if the windscreen is
wet.

Any ideas on where to start the repair? Duff motor
that can't develop the
torque? Problem with the mechanism?

Any help would be appreciated.

Piers James


To Unsubscribe send an email to:
***@***.***

The Lotus Elan mailing list is provided by
<A href="http://www.lotuselan.net.. Read
the Disclaimer! Copyright? 1999, 2000, 2001
LotusElan.net and the email
author, all rights reserved.
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]




__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com




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href="http://www.lotuselan.net.. Read













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href="http://www.lotuselan.net.. Read the
Disclaimer! Copyright? 1999, 2000, 2001 LotusElan.net and the email author,
all rights reserved. http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm

















daves56
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 150
Joined: 13 Oct 2003

PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Thu May 30, 2002 12:09 pm

Not yelling. When I am working on drawings or our Syteless database, I use cap locks. Then I forget it is on. That 90 deg bend is so gradual, it can'tbe any of the problem. Much more likely to be old thickened grease in wheel boxes, in the gearbox on the wiper motor or lack of lube on the motor bushes and dirty brushes/ comutator.

My friend was just about to pitch the old Klaxon horn from his '27 P1 RR. He showed it to me partially apart and how nasty and dirty and "rusty" it was inside. He said my hands moved too quickly after he handed it to me to stop me as I popped it apart, to show him the brush holders were brass, not masses of rust and there was a broken brush spring. He just finished puttingit back together over the weekend is so impressed at how nicely it works. Even up through the 70's, almost all Lucas stuff was so easy to work on andso many of the individual parts were available that anything was rebuildable. Even a 1972 car is 30 years old today and there is 30 years of accumulated dirt and grime.

Roger


>> ***@***.*** 05/29/02 05:04PM >>>
Why are you yelling? The wiper motor in a Plus Two is mounted in the

engine compartment on the upper wheelwell. As the cabling enters the
firewall it makes a 90 degree bend to the wheelboxes. Perhaps you have a
modified system.
Dave Sutcliffe


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 3:13 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


WHAT 90 DEG BEND IN WHAT CABLE?????? YOU MUST BE LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT
WIPER MECHANISM THAN I HAVE.

>> ***@***.*** 05/29/02 02:24PM >>>
Richard,

Good point. The brushes and contacts can be cleaned when the motor's
apart. But since I've never gotten the wipers to operate perfectly I can't
really say what corrections will definitely work. I suspect the major
problem with the design is the 90 degree bend in the cable. The motor
requires a great deal of torque to move the wipers. Several amps flow
through some rather thin wiring. I was able to increase the efficiency
(greatly) of my electric windows by adding a thick braided wire from the
motor to chassis ground. So it might be possible to better the ground on the
electric wiper motor (if the case is grounded). Also adding a relay to
activate the wiper motor may help but some thought would have to be given so
the wipers still "park".
Dave Sutcliffe

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Selby [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:39 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


David,
Did you not also clean the commutator and renew
brushes/springs?
Cheers - Richard

--- "Sutcliffe, David" <***@***.***> wrote:
I think we've all had this problem. It's really a
bad design. The motors
are the same as used on the MGBs so they can be
bought new. However to clean
the wiper system correctly will mean removing the
dash to get to the
wheelboxes.
But to start off, I would first try lubricating
the cable. You can pull
off the two wipers, remove the clamp around the
motor and disconnect the
motor from the outer sleeve (tubing). At this point
if you pull the motor
away the cable will also come out. Set the motor and
cable on clean
newspaper. Now grasp the knurled knobs on the wiper
wheelboxes and turn.
You'll probably notice that they turn freely for
about 120 degrees then bind
slightly. The bushings tend to wear in a localized
area. You should be able
to oil just under the knurl and spin the knurl to
loosen the wheelbox. Be
careful not to get too much oil on the paintwork.
Try to remove as much of the old grease as
possible from the cable. After
30 years it's going to look and feel like peanut
butter. You can reapply new
grease to the cable or can try motorcycle chain
lube. (I think chain lube
works the best.) You might also want to check the
motor. The case can be
removed and those bushings can be lubricated. As
well as the motor/cable
mechanism. Next put some newspaper inside the car in
the footwells (in case
of lubricate dripping down). Reinstall the cable and
motor assembly and run
with the wipers off for a while. Reinstall wipers,
cross your fingers and
see if it works.
In the event that it works better but not great
(which it will). Buy a new
motor. If you won't be driving in the rain but need
it to pass an inspection
you can buy weaker wiper springs (they hold the
wiper blades to the
windscreen) at any hardware store. The wipers will
move enough to pass an
inspection but will make the wipers useless in the
rain. I have the original
spring on the driver's side wiper and a weaker
spring on the passenger
side.
Good Luck,
Dave Sutcliffe
69 +2

-----Original Message-----
From: Piers James [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 10:50 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WIPER PROBLEM


I just purchased a '70 Elan +2 and the wipers don't
work properly.

With no load (stuck up in the air) they will operate
but if they are dropped
on the windscreen they bog down and won't run - even
if the windscreen is
wet.

Any ideas on where to start the repair? Duff motor
that can't develop the
torque? Problem with the mechanism?

Any help would be appreciated.

Piers James


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