Lotus Elan

electric window motors

PostPost by: "Don Fysh" » Mon Jan 07, 2002 2:24 am

Can anyone explain the wiring of the electric window motors? There are some contacts on the gearbox of the electric window motors and I don't understand their purpose. Right now they are causing me trouble because they stop the window lift each rotation. The window motor works fine if these contacts are bypassed. What is their purpose? Can I leave them bypassed?
Don
S3/5607
"Don Fysh"
 

PostPost by: "Robert D. LaMoreaux » Mon Jan 07, 2002 12:02 pm

Can anyone explain the wiring of the electric window motors?
There are some contacts on the gearbox of the electric window
motors and I don't understand their purpose. Right now they
are causing me trouble because they stop the window lift each
rotation. The window motor works fine if these contacts are
bypassed. What is their purpose? Can I leave them bypassed?
Don
S3/5607



In the Application for which the motors were originally designed the contacts stopped the motor to park the wipers, but in the window application theyaren't used. As I understand it the motors were windshield (windscreen for the UK) wiper motors and were adapted to power the windows. I can't recall exactly how mine were wired, but the contacts weren't used.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
***@***.***
Too many Hobbies.... Too Little Time
1969 Lotus Elan....It's not a restoration, it's a never-ending
adventure.
"Robert D. LaMoreaux
 

PostPost by: "zman52164" » Mon Jan 07, 2002 2:59 pm

Contacts not used in my early s3-66 coupe. I suffer from low voltage
(7to8 volts)when measured at the motor. Has anyone found a better way
to wire the windows to get full 12 volts to the window. They are sure
slow at that voltage. My coupe has the control switches mounted in
the doors as apposed in the dash on the later cars.
"zman52164"
 

PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Mon Jan 07, 2002 3:18 pm

These motors were originally English Ford wiper motor, such as Cortina, Escort, maybe 105E Anglias. They need to be taken apart every so many years and the comutators cleaned. There is no insulation between the segments, onlyair gaps. The air gaps will eventually get a carbon track over them to thedetriment of performance. I typically clean with alcohol, and Scotchbrite,then run a business card through the air gaps to clean them out. The otherbig problem is they depend on a ground wire to complete the circuit that clips under the screws holding the interior light switch on the door jamb edge. Usually these screws become loose and you'll find the interior lamp doesn't light when the doors are open. I have added an additional ground lead to the dash mount bolts where they fasten to the tunnel and into the frame.It helps, but I haven't checked voltage either before or after doing this.Good electrical grounds are so important on Elans.

Roger


>> ***@***.*** 01/07/02 09:59AM >>>
Contacts not used in my early s3-66 coupe. I suffer from low voltage

(7to8 volts)when measured at the motor. Has anyone found a better way
to wire the windows to get full 12 volts to the window. They are sure
slow at that voltage. My coupe has the control switches mounted in
the doors as apposed in the dash on the later cars.





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"Roger Sieling"
 

PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Mon Jan 07, 2002 3:47 pm

I might also mention that some of the motors were originally put together with aluminum 10-32 screws. The heads had separated from the rest of the screw and I replaced them with steel 10-32 screws. Since they didn't work while only partially assembled w/ the broken alloy screws, I have no history ofthem with alloy screws. I have no idea that there was any need for non-magnetic screws, but most other motors use steel screws so I would assume theyare now functioning normally. (and pretty slow by modern standards)

Roger


>> ***@***.*** 01/07/02 10:17AM >>>
These motors were originally English Ford wiper motor, such as Cortina, Escort, maybe 105E Anglias. They need to be taken apart every so many years and the comutators cleaned. There is no insulation between the segments, onlyair gaps. The air gaps will eventually get a carbon track over them to thedetriment of performance. I typically clean with alcohol, and Scotchbrite,then run a business card through the air gaps to clean them out. The otherbig problem is they depend on a ground wire to complete the circuit that clips under the screws holding the interior light switch on the door jamb edge. Usually these screws become loose and you'll find the interior lamp doesn't light when the doors are open. I have added an additional ground lead to the dash mount bolts where they fasten to the tunnel and into the frame.It helps, but I haven't checked voltage either before or after doing this.Good electrical grounds are so important on Elans.


Roger


>> ***@***.*** 01/07/02 09:59AM >>>
Contacts not used in my early s3-66 coupe. I suffer from low voltage

(7to8 volts)when measured at the motor. Has anyone found a better way
to wire the windows to get full 12 volts to the window. They are sure
slow at that voltage. My coupe has the control switches mounted in
the doors as apposed in the dash on the later cars.





The Lotus Elan mailing list is provided by <A href="<A href="http://www.lotuselan.net..http://www.lotuselan.net.. Read














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"Roger Sieling"
 

PostPost by: simonknee » Mon Jan 07, 2002 7:45 pm

And if you want to stop the motor unit vibrating against the trim panel use
a couple of generous blobs of blu-tack (actually I find black-tack even
better).

cheers

Simon
'67 S3
Simon
'67 S3 FHC 36/7002
'69 +2 50/1370 (stolen '00)
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PostPost by: "mageiger" » Mon Jan 07, 2002 10:10 pm

I had the same problem with mine. As I could not find screws long
enough I used 10-32 threaded rod with a nut at the end. Motors work
as well as can be expected.

Mike Geiger


--- In [email protected], "Roger Sieling" <[email protected]> wrote:
I might also mention that some of the motors were originally put
together with aluminum 10-32 screws. The heads had separated from the

rest of the screw and I replaced them with steel 10-32 screws. <
"mageiger"
 

PostPost by: gobw2 » Tue Jan 08, 2002 12:23 am

On Sun, 6 Jan 2002 20:24:45 -0600 "Don Fysh" <***@***.***> writes:
Can anyone explain the wiring of the electric window motors? There
are some contacts on the gearbox of the electric window motors and I
don't understand their purpose. Right now they are causing me
trouble because they stop the window lift each rotation. The window
motor works fine if these contacts are bypassed. What is their
purpose? Can I leave them bypassed?
Don
S3/5607

Don, on my S3, which is a bit later than yours (6078) these are
windshield wiper motors. The contacts on the gearbox were for the wiper

function, and have no purpose in the window appplication. In fact, I
made up replacement gearbox caps and bagged the plastic ones for some
future owner. George
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PostPost by: gobw2 » Tue Jan 08, 2002 1:06 am

On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:59:05 -0000 "zman52164" <***@***.***>
writes:
Contacts not used in my early s3-66 coupe. I suffer from low voltage

(7to8 volts)when measured at the motor. Has anyone found a better
way
to wire the windows to get full 12 volts to the window. They are
sure
slow at that voltage. My coupe has the control switches mounted in
the doors as apposed in the dash on the later cars.

Who are you, zman52164?
Like to know who we are talking to.

With a properly charged, good battery, there are 2 causes of low voltage
that come to mind.
Excessive mechanical load - ie binding - something needs lubrication, is
a very likely cause. Most likely place - motor bearings, dried out
gearbox grease. An ammeter will confirm load.
Mine work about as fast as other car electric windows with original
wiring except for a beefed up ground, but I do lube the motors every 10
years or so, and change grease. DO NOT use chassis grease in cold climes.
Use power tool gearbox grease. It is much thinner, and specifically
designed for gears.

The second cause of low voltage is supply. When you are sure that the
system is mechanically free, and motor load is normal. check voltage drop
with your meter. Check system voltage under load. If you do not have 12v
to start, correct it. Then check the most likely electrical problem -from
ground on switch to chassis with window motor running. Over 1/4 volt
drop, I would replace the ground wire with #10 or 12, and take it back to
a solid ground, like one of the chassis bolts on the tunnel that holds
the dash bracket. Use as fine a strand wire as you can get, as the wire
flexes with every door opening, and fine strand takes longer to break.
Check from the switch to the motor under load. Drop should be well under
1/4 volt on each wire. Check from window switch back to ACC. terminal on
ignition switch - same 1/4 volt drop max. By the way, my window motors
were NOT fused, so I added a 20 amp inline fuse at the ign switch
connection.

The first time I serviced the motors, I removed wiper end switches from
gearbox, and made new end caps out of plastic. I was young, and did it to
slightly reduce load caused by switch assembly, and because it looks more
professional, less like a jury rig, and cleaner without the wiper stuff
on on the gearbox.
George, 67 under restoration hiatus
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PostPost by: "Don Fysh" » Tue Jan 08, 2002 12:13 pm

Thanks to all who replied. I knew I could make the motors work without the
contacts but was concerned that I had an extra unused connection. I was
further confused by the electrical schematic in the work shop manual that
shows 3 wires going to the motor, 2 from the switch and a 3rd to ground. I
knew that one of the switch leads went to ground as well so I figured that
there had to be a reason for the lead from the contacts to ground,
especially since one of the wires from the switch is pig-tailed to the other
contact. Unfortunately I had no record of how the wires were originally
connected. I will proceed without the wiring to the contacts.

Thanks,

Don










"Don Fysh"
 

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