Fire safety.....

[Brian Walton]

Hopefully this will bring a few comments.

Fire and Lotus cars don't but do go together.

I came across a chap yesterday who was looking at Steve Whitram's +2 and Sprint parked on the shores of the lake next
to Wanaka in the South Island of New Zealand. Goto www.dotco.co.nz/wanaka and have a wee look before I take it down.

This chap I met mentioned his old +2 in England. It caught fire mate! is all he could say...poor chap.

How does the group get around the problem of trying not to have their pride and joy go up in smoke?

Comments would be appreciated so as I can build in the features before the body goes back on.

[schwartzd13]

Replace all your fuel lines with Stainless steel braided (racing) fuel
lines and replace all the nylon t's, filter and other fittings with new
units or racing AN-fittings...

Basically you need to be putting all your fuel traveling through
something that won't melt like the original pieces!

David
69 S4 DHC -

[Rob_LaMoreaux]

I replaced all the fuel lines, and the 'T' between the carbs is now brass.

I installed a battery cut-off switch in the kick plate under the door in front of the drivers seat, so I can kill all electrical power when I'm not around.

I rewired all the connections and wires that looked bad or showed signs of oxidation.

I ran copper pipe from the boot to behind the dash and near the carbs, so Ican put a racing fire system in the boot (I'll also have it spray the fueltank). In the mean time there is a foam (AFF) fire extinguisher behind thepassenger seat.


Oh yeah and I replaced the carb fuel float valve that was sticking and overfilling the float bowl thus dripping fuel on the coil and the ground.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
***@***.***
Too many Hobbies.... Too Little Time
1969 Lotus Elan....It's not a restoration, it's a never-ending
adventure.

["D.R. Maffei"]

This is real, the new fuel additive dissolves certain types of plastics, and I don't remember it did to real rubber. Some body should look into it before replacement.

Don

----- Original Message -----
From: David Schwartz
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Fire safety.....


Replace all your fuel lines with Stainless steel braided (racing) fuel
lines and replace all the nylon t's, filter and other fittings with new
units or racing AN-fittings...

Basically you need to be putting all your fuel traveling through
something that won't melt like the original pieces!

David
69 S4 DHC

[Lincoln62]

Brian

I have heard many stories over the years from people in the club about
their Lotus going up in smoke.

Many years ago as a safety measure I replaced my fuel hoses with
expensive braided lines made up for me by a well known company. 5 years
later my S2's engine bay caught fire. Luckily I was able to put it out
with very little damage (thank god for the fire extinguisher). The
rubber in the lines had deteriorated prematurely but you couldn't tell
because the braiding was hiding it. When I pulled them apart the rubber
was perished beyond belief. I no longer use braided lines, just normal
fuel hose with clamps. Haven't had a problem since (5 years).

The fact that the coil is sited under the carbies is most likely what
set the fuel off. I would find a better place for it.

A friend fitted Webers with sports air filters to his Lancia back in the
70's and he had the whole car go up in smoke in the middle of an
intersection. Webers tend to spit back and when you have pancake
filters they can get soaked with fuel. It only takes one errant spark
to set this off.

I think the combination of a fibreglass car, the carbies on top of the
distributor/coil (high tension leads do tend to spark), non original air
filters and carbies that spit fuel has probably accounted for many Elans
burning to the ground. I assume the designers thought of this and this
is one of the reasons the Elan has an air box and remote filter.

Hope this helps.

Peter
Sydney, Australia

[ddddumas]

I have a Halon fire-extinguisher bottle (from Pegasus Racing ) strapped to
the rear bulkhead. It looks great. Its red so it matches the red Simpson
seatbelts. The tonneau hides it from casual thieves; otherwise it would be
an easy steal. When I work on the fuel system I put it in the passenger seat
for a quick grab if necessary.

Paul Garrett
' 66 Elan S2

[gobw2]

`Brian - that is very impressive - never saw pictures in movie format
before. Re fires - if we could find out where they usually start, then
we can put our heads together and design a safer way. I would like to
know what happened - may be able to help with ideas to reduce
recurrence.; I always had a extinguisher in mine. Problem areas I am
aware of - plastic lines from fuel pump to carbs on older models - use
metal braid. Electricals -2- 35 amp fuses are too much for some of the
light wire used - should break circuits down - separate low amp fuses for
wipers, heater motor etc. Generator or alternator - on generator stuck
relay will cause fire, on alternator - shorted diodes. Modern cars
protect with a fusible link. Head lamp circuitry should have some kind of
protection.
I had one instance of a fire starting when the car was about 2 years old.
the starter solenoid shorted out, and the starter solenoid ground wire
was glowing red. I popped hood immediately and ripped wire off solenoid,
burning fingers. had to make a partial new harness, as ground was part of
loom and destroyed it's neighbors. George
On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:58:22 -0700 "Brian Walton - dotco.co.nz"
<***@***.***> writes:

[BMMcGlynn at aol.com]

I've put a halon system to discharge above the twin Webers with a pull handle
on the dash. It looks pretty good. I also have solid-state ignition, so I
guess I'm not right with many of you guys.

I also have a race-style electrical cut-off key behind the passenger seat. I
use it for security.

By the way, do any listers have a suggestion for raising the exhaust system?
I live on a private road and one of the oldsters refuses to remove the speed
bump. I could also use some advice on replacing the screw that binds the
hood (top) framework to the body.

Brian McGlynn
1970 S4 DHC S/E

[Stevie-Heathie]

The coil in my +2 is not mounted below the carbs: The PO moved it upwards
and forwards to the radiator. The mounting bracket that comes with the coil
bolts straight onto the top right corner of the radiator, and the coil is
only about 10 degrees from vertical.

This position also means that it is a doddle to change the coil, (which will
be the first component that I replace should the car ever have ignition
problems again).

Steve
1970 +2S
Chester, UK
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Brian Walton - dotco.co.nz" <>

[saildrive2001]

-If you are using the original generator & voltage regulator as I am, I
would strongly recommend using some form of battery isolator switch. Many
years ago I parked my S4 at a water-ski show only to be notified on the PA
system that there was smoke coming from the engine bay. What had happened
was that a relay had stuck in the closed position in the voltage regulator &
the battery had tried to motor the generator. The end result was a burnt out
wiring harness in the engine bay, a burnt out generator & also a burnt out
starter motor. As a footnote the voltage regulator was a recently installed
rebuilt unit.
I am one of those rare people who is an original owner. I bought my car as a
kit when I still lived in England. It is a RHD. 1969 S4 SE convertible,
currently under restoration with half in my basement & half in the garage.
Keith Marshall
Ontario, Canada.
***@***.***

[elansprint71]

The PO of my Sprint had fitted a battery isolator in the side panel behind
the left hand seat, the original battery cable being too short he had put
two pieces of smaller diameter (domestic) cable either side of the isolator
and (badly) soldered and clamped using a Jubilee (hose clip) this mess
together.
On the drive home from picking up the car, it stalled and refused to
re-start; I used the prescribed method for hot starting Dellorto's, i.e.
floor the throttle and keep on churning. The high resistance joints in the
pieced wiring did not like this large current being drawn and next thing
there is a lot of smoke coming apparently from the boot (trunk). I operated
the cut out, which I found to be v. hot and bailed out, grabbing the
extinguisher on the way; disconnected the battery terminal using wrench in
record time and stood back shaking contemplating my new purchase and
wondering what clever comments my good lady would have to make about these
events. Incidentally, earlier in this maiden journey the engine had already
refused to turn over after I tanked up and the auto-club guy had prescribed
a new battery, which then purchased and fitted about six miles before the
above hot wiring incident.
I decided to swallow my pride, as it was getting dark and I had forty miles
of lonely hill country to traverse, called the auto-club again and arrived
home on the back of a transporter, complete with orange flashing beacons.
You can imagine the smart-ass comments I got when herself saw this,
particularly as the car money had been earmarked for new carpets and
bathroom re-fit!!

Wives, eh? Don't you just love 'em.

My solution has been to fit a device called "Discarnect" directly to the
battery terminal, this has a builtin isolator screw and is a very good piece
of kit. Cost in the UK (via Club Lotus) is around ?8. I also replaced the
crap wiring and have it displayed on my garage wall.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith I. Marshall" <***@***.***>

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Fire problems.



-If you are using the original generator & voltage regulator as I am, I
would strongly recommend using some form of battery isolator switch. Many
years ago I parked my S4 at a water-ski show only to be notified on the PA
system that there was smoke coming from the engine bay. What had happened
was that a relay had stuck in the closed position in the voltage regulator &
the battery had tried to motor the generator. The end result was a burnt out
wiring harness in the engine bay, a burnt out generator & also a burnt out
starter motor. As a footnote the voltage regulator was a recently installed
rebuilt unit.
I am one of those rare people who is an original owner. I bought my car as a
kit when I still lived in England. It is a RHD. 1969 S4 SE convertible,
currently under restoration with half in my basement & half in the garage.
Keith Marshall
Ontario, Canada.
***@***.***







reserved.

[elansprint71]

The PO of my Sprint had fitted a battery isolator in the side panel behind
the left hand seat, the original battery cable being too short he had put
two pieces of smaller diameter (domestic) cable either side of the isolator
and (badly) soldered and clamped using a Jubilee (hose clip) this mess
together.
On the drive home from picking up the car, it stalled and refused to
re-start; I used the prescribed method for hot starting Dellorto's, i.e.
floor the throttle and keep on churning. The high resistance joints in the
pieced wiring did not like this large current being drawn and next thing
there is a lot of smoke coming apparently from the boot (trunk). I operated
the cut out, which I found to be v. hot and bailed out, grabbing the
extinguisher on the way; disconnected the battery terminal using wrench in
record time and stood back shaking contemplating my new purchase and
wondering what clever comments my good lady would have to make about these
events. Incidentally, earlier in this maiden journey the engine had already
refused to turn over after I tanked up and the auto-club guy had prescribed
a new battery, which then purchased and fitted about six miles before the
above hot wiring incident.
I decided to swallow my pride, as it was getting dark and I had forty miles
of lonely hill country to traverse, called the auto-club again and arrived
home on the back of a transporter, complete with orange flashing beacons.
You can imagine the smart-ass comments I got when herself saw this,
particularly as the car money had been earmarked for new carpets and
bathroom re-fit!!

Wives, eh? Don't you just love 'em.

My solution has been to fit a device called "Discarnect" directly to the
battery terminal, this has a builtin isolator screw and is a very good piece
of kit. Cost in the UK (via Club Lotus) is around ?8. I also replaced the
crap wiring and have it displayed on my garage wall.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith I. Marshall" <***@***.***>

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Fire problems.



-If you are using the original generator & voltage regulator as I am, I
would strongly recommend using some form of battery isolator switch. Many
years ago I parked my S4 at a water-ski show only to be notified on the PA
system that there was smoke coming from the engine bay. What had happened
was that a relay had stuck in the closed position in the voltage regulator &
the battery had tried to motor the generator. The end result was a burnt out
wiring harness in the engine bay, a burnt out generator & also a burnt out
starter motor. As a footnote the voltage regulator was a recently installed
rebuilt unit.
I am one of those rare people who is an original owner. I bought my car as a
kit when I still lived in England. It is a RHD. 1969 S4 SE convertible,
currently under restoration with half in my basement & half in the garage.
Keith Marshall
Ontario, Canada.
***@***.***







reserved.

[elansprint71]

The PO of my Sprint had fitted a battery isolator in the side panel behind
the left hand seat, the original battery cable being too short he had put
two pieces of smaller diameter (domestic) cable either side of the isolator
and (badly) soldered and clamped using a Jubilee (hose clip) this mess
together.
On the drive home from picking up the car, it stalled and refused to
re-start; I used the prescribed method for hot starting Dellorto's, i.e.
floor the throttle and keep on churning. The high resistance joints in the
pieced wiring did not like this large current being drawn and next thing
there is a lot of smoke coming apparently from the boot (trunk). I operated
the cut out, which I found to be v. hot and bailed out, grabbing the
extinguisher on the way; disconnected the battery terminal using wrench in
record time and stood back shaking contemplating my new purchase and
wondering what clever comments my good lady would have to make about these
events. Incidentally, earlier in this maiden journey the engine had already
refused to turn over after I tanked up and the auto-club guy had prescribed
a new battery, which then purchased and fitted about six miles before the
above hot wiring incident.
I decided to swallow my pride, as it was getting dark and I had forty miles
of lonely hill country to traverse, called the auto-club again and arrived
home on the back of a transporter, complete with orange flashing beacons.
You can imagine the smart-ass comments I got when herself saw this,
particularly as the car money had been earmarked for new carpets and
bathroom re-fit!!

Wives, eh? Don't you just love 'em.

My solution has been to fit a device called "Discarnect" directly to the
battery terminal, this has a builtin isolator screw and is a very good piece
of kit. Cost in the UK (via Club Lotus) is around ?8. I also replaced the
crap wiring and have it displayed on my garage wall.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith I. Marshall" <***@***.***>

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Fire problems.



-If you are using the original generator & voltage regulator as I am, I
would strongly recommend using some form of battery isolator switch. Many
years ago I parked my S4 at a water-ski show only to be notified on the PA
system that there was smoke coming from the engine bay. What had happened
was that a relay had stuck in the closed position in the voltage regulator &
the battery had tried to motor the generator. The end result was a burnt out
wiring harness in the engine bay, a burnt out generator & also a burnt out
starter motor. As a footnote the voltage regulator was a recently installed
rebuilt unit.
I am one of those rare people who is an original owner. I bought my car as a
kit when I still lived in England. It is a RHD. 1969 S4 SE convertible,
currently under restoration with half in my basement & half in the garage.
Keith Marshall
Ontario, Canada.
***@***.***







reserved.

[elansprint71]

The PO of my Sprint had fitted a battery isolator in the side panel behind
the left hand seat, the original battery cable being too short he had put
two pieces of smaller diameter (domestic) cable either side of the isolator
and (badly) soldered and clamped using a Jubilee (hose clip) this mess
together.
On the drive home from picking up the car, it stalled and refused to
re-start; I used the prescribed method for hot starting Dellorto's, i.e.
floor the throttle and keep on churning. The high resistance joints in the
pieced wiring did not like this large current being drawn and next thing
there is a lot of smoke coming apparently from the boot (trunk). I operated
the cut out, which I found to be v. hot and bailed out, grabbing the
extinguisher on the way; disconnected the battery terminal using wrench in
record time and stood back shaking contemplating my new purchase and
wondering what clever comments my good lady would have to make about these
events. Incidentally, earlier in this maiden journey the engine had already
refused to turn over after I tanked up and the auto-club guy had prescribed
a new battery, which then purchased and fitted about six miles before the
above hot wiring incident.
I decided to swallow my pride, as it was getting dark and I had forty miles
of lonely hill country to traverse, called the auto-club again and arrived
home on the back of a transporter, complete with orange flashing beacons.
You can imagine the smart-ass comments I got when herself saw this,
particularly as the car money had been earmarked for new carpets and
bathroom re-fit!!

Wives, eh? Don't you just love 'em.

My solution has been to fit a device called "Discarnect" directly to the
battery terminal, this has a builtin isolator screw and is a very good piece
of kit. Cost in the UK (via Club Lotus) is around ?8. I also replaced the
crap wiring and have it displayed on my garage wall.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith I. Marshall" <***@***.***>

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Fire problems.



-If you are using the original generator & voltage regulator as I am, I
would strongly recommend using some form of battery isolator switch. Many
years ago I parked my S4 at a water-ski show only to be notified on the PA
system that there was smoke coming from the engine bay. What had happened
was that a relay had stuck in the closed position in the voltage regulator &
the battery had tried to motor the generator. The end result was a burnt out
wiring harness in the engine bay, a burnt out generator & also a burnt out
starter motor. As a footnote the voltage regulator was a recently installed
rebuilt unit.
I am one of those rare people who is an original owner. I bought my car as a
kit when I still lived in England. It is a RHD. 1969 S4 SE convertible,
currently under restoration with half in my basement & half in the garage.
Keith Marshall
Ontario, Canada.
***@***.***







reserved.

[elansprint71]

The PO of my Sprint had fitted a battery isolator in the side panel behind
the left hand seat, the original battery cable being too short he had put
two pieces of smaller diameter (domestic) cable either side of the isolator
and (badly) soldered and clamped using a Jubilee (hose clip) this mess
together.
On the drive home from picking up the car, it stalled and refused to
re-start; I used the prescribed method for hot starting Dellorto's, i.e.
floor the throttle and keep on churning. The high resistance joints in the
pieced wiring did not like this large current being drawn and next thing
there is a lot of smoke coming apparently from the boot (trunk). I operated
the cut out, which I found to be v. hot and bailed out, grabbing the
extinguisher on the way; disconnected the battery terminal using wrench in
record time and stood back shaking contemplating my new purchase and
wondering what clever comments my good lady would have to make about these
events. Incidentally, earlier in this maiden journey the engine had already
refused to turn over after I tanked up and the auto-club guy had prescribed
a new battery, which then purchased and fitted about six miles before the
above hot wiring incident.
I decided to swallow my pride, as it was getting dark and I had forty miles
of lonely hill country to traverse, called the auto-club again and arrived
home on the back of a transporter, complete with orange flashing beacons.
You can imagine the smart-ass comments I got when herself saw this,
particularly as the car money had been earmarked for new carpets and
bathroom re-fit!!

Wives, eh? Don't you just love 'em.

My solution has been to fit a device called "Discarnect" directly to the
battery terminal, this has a builtin isolator screw and is a very good piece
of kit. Cost in the UK (via Club Lotus) is around ?8. I also replaced the
crap wiring and have it displayed on my garage wall.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith I. Marshall" <***@***.***>

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Fire problems.



-If you are using the original generator & voltage regulator as I am, I
would strongly recommend using some form of battery isolator switch. Many
years ago I parked my S4 at a water-ski show only to be notified on the PA
system that there was smoke coming from the engine bay. What had happened
was that a relay had stuck in the closed position in the voltage regulator &
the battery had tried to motor the generator. The end result was a burnt out
wiring harness in the engine bay, a burnt out generator & also a burnt out
starter motor. As a footnote the voltage regulator was a recently installed
rebuilt unit.
I am one of those rare people who is an original owner. I bought my car as a
kit when I still lived in England. It is a RHD. 1969 S4 SE convertible,
currently under restoration with half in my basement & half in the garage.
Keith Marshall
Ontario, Canada.
***@***.***







reserved.