Lotus Elan

Fire safety.....

PostPost by: Brian Walton » Mon Apr 23, 2001 9:59 pm

Hopefully this will bring a few comments.

Fire and Lotus cars don't but do go together.

I came across a chap yesterday who was looking at Steve Whitram's +2 and Sprint parked on the shores of the lake next
to Wanaka in the South Island of New Zealand. Goto www.dotco.co.nz/wanaka and have a wee look before I take it down.

This chap I met mentioned his old +2 in England. It caught fire mate! is all he could say...poor chap.

How does the group get around the problem of trying not to have their pride and joy go up in smoke?

Comments would be appreciated so as I can build in the features before the body goes back on.
User avatar
Brian Walton
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 609
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Arrowtown N.Z.

PostPost by: schwartzd13 » Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:26 pm

Replace all your fuel lines with Stainless steel braided (racing) fuel
lines and replace all the nylon t's, filter and other fittings with new
units or racing AN-fittings...

Basically you need to be putting all your fuel traveling through
something that won't melt like the original pieces!

David
69 S4 DHC -
User avatar
schwartzd13
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 197
Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, Calif USA

PostPost by: "Robert D. LaMoreaux » Mon Apr 23, 2001 11:43 pm

How does the group get around the problem of trying not to
have their pride and joy go up in smoke?


I replaced all the fuel lines, and the 'T' between the carbs is now brass.

I installed a battery cut-off switch in the kick plate under the door in front of the drivers seat, so I can kill all electrical power when I'm not around.

I rewired all the connections and wires that looked bad or showed signs of oxidation.

I ran copper pipe from the boot to behind the dash and near the carbs, so Ican put a racing fire system in the boot (I'll also have it spray the fueltank). In the mean time there is a foam (AFF) fire extinguisher behind thepassenger seat.


Oh yeah and I replaced the carb fuel float valve that was sticking and overfilling the float bowl thus dripping fuel on the coil and the ground.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
***@***.***
Too many Hobbies.... Too Little Time
1969 Lotus Elan....It's not a restoration, it's a never-ending
adventure.
"Robert D. LaMoreaux
 

PostPost by: "D.R. Maffei" » Tue Apr 24, 2001 12:13 am

This is real, the new fuel additive dissolves certain types of plastics, and I don't remember it did to real rubber. Some body should look into it before replacement.

Don

----- Original Message -----
From: David Schwartz
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Fire safety.....


Replace all your fuel lines with Stainless steel braided (racing) fuel
lines and replace all the nylon t's, filter and other fittings with new
units or racing AN-fittings...

Basically you need to be putting all your fuel traveling through
something that won't melt like the original pieces!

David
69 S4 DHC
"D.R. Maffei"
 

PostPost by: DDDDumas at aol.com » Tue Apr 24, 2001 1:26 am

I have a Halon fire-extinguisher bottle (from Pegasus Racing ) strapped to
the rear bulkhead. It looks great. Its red so it matches the red Simpson
seatbelts. The tonneau hides it from casual thieves; otherwise it would be
an easy steal. When I work on the fuel system I put it in the passenger seat
for a quick grab if necessary.

Paul Garrett
' 66 Elan S2
DDDDumas at aol.com
 

PostPost by: gobw2 » Tue Apr 24, 2001 4:51 am

`Brian - that is very impressive - never saw pictures in movie format
before. Re fires - if we could find out where they usually start, then
we can put our heads together and design a safer way. I would like to
know what happened - may be able to help with ideas to reduce
recurrence.; I always had a extinguisher in mine. Problem areas I am
aware of - plastic lines from fuel pump to carbs on older models - use
metal braid. Electricals -2- 35 amp fuses are too much for some of the
light wire used - should break circuits down - separate low amp fuses for
wipers, heater motor etc. Generator or alternator - on generator stuck
relay will cause fire, on alternator - shorted diodes. Modern cars
protect with a fusible link. Head lamp circuitry should have some kind of
protection.
I had one instance of a fire starting when the car was about 2 years old.
the starter solenoid shorted out, and the starter solenoid ground wire
was glowing red. I popped hood immediately and ripped wire off solenoid,
burning fingers. had to make a partial new harness, as ground was part of
loom and destroyed it's neighbors. George
On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:58:22 -0700 "Brian Walton - dotco.co.nz"
<***@***.***> writes:
Hopefully this will bring a few comments.

Fire and Lotus cars don't but do go together.

I came across a chap yesterday who was looking at Steve Whitram's +2
and Sprint parked on the shores of the lake next
to Wanaka in the South Island of New Zealand. Goto
www.dotco.co.nz/wanaka and have a wee look before I take it down.

This chap I met mentioned his old +2 in England. It caught fire
mate! is all he could say...poor chap.

How does the group get around the problem of trying not to have
their pride and joy go up in smoke?

Comments would be appreciated so as I can build in the features
before the body goes back on.

The Lotus Elan mailing list is provided by
.

To Unsubscribe: email ***@***.***

Copyright) 1999, 2000, 2001 LotusElan.net and the email author, all
rights reserved.
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm#copy
Read the Disclaimer!
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm#dis

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



________________________________________________________________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
gobw2
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 968
Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPost by: BMMcGlynn at aol.com » Tue Apr 24, 2001 5:10 am

I've put a halon system to discharge above the twin Webers with a pull handle
on the dash. It looks pretty good. I also have solid-state ignition, so I
guess I'm not right with many of you guys.

I also have a race-style electrical cut-off key behind the passenger seat. I
use it for security.

By the way, do any listers have a suggestion for raising the exhaust system?
I live on a private road and one of the oldsters refuses to remove the speed
bump. I could also use some advice on replacing the screw that binds the
hood (top) framework to the body.

Brian McGlynn
1970 S4 DHC S/E
BMMcGlynn at aol.com
 

PostPost by: gobw2 » Wed Apr 25, 2001 3:26 am

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ***@***.***
To: ***@***.***
Cc: ***@***.***
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:43:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Fire safety.....

`Brian - that is very impressive - never saw pictures in movie format
before. Re fires - if we could find out where they usually start, then
we can put our heads together and design a safer way. I would like to
know what happened - may be able to help with ideas to reduce
recurrence.; I always had a extinguisher in mine. Problem areas I am
aware of - plastic lines from fuel pump to carbs on older models - use
metal braid. Electricals -2- 35 amp fuses are too much for some of the
light wire used - should break circuits down - separate low amp fuses for
wipers, heater motor etc. Generator or alternator - on generator stuck
relay will cause fire, on alternator - shorted diodes. Modern cars
protect with a fusible link. Head lamp circuitry should have some kind of
protection.
I had one instance of a fire starting when the car was about 2 years old.
the starter solenoid shorted out, and the starter solenoid ground wire
was glowing red. I popped hood immediately and ripped wire off solenoid,
burning fingers. had to make a partial new harness, as ground was part of
loom and destroyed it's neighbors. George
On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:58:22 -0700 "Brian Walton - dotco.co.nz"
<***@***.***> writes:
Hopefully this will bring a few comments.

Fire and Lotus cars don't but do go together.

I came across a chap yesterday who was looking at Steve Whitram's +2
and Sprint parked on the shores of the lake next
to Wanaka in the South Island of New Zealand. Goto
www.dotco.co.nz/wanaka and have a wee look before I take it down.

This chap I met mentioned his old +2 in England. It caught fire
mate! is all he could say...poor chap.

How does the group get around the problem of trying not to have
their pride and joy go up in smoke?

Comments would be appreciated so as I can build in the features
before the body goes back on.

The Lotus Elan mailing list is provided by
.

To Unsubscribe: email ***@***.***

Copyright) 1999, 2000, 2001 LotusElan.net and the email author, all
rights reserved.
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm#copy
Read the Disclaimer!
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm#dis

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



________________________________________________________________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
gobw2
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 968
Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPost by: Brian Walton » Wed Apr 25, 2001 3:36 am

So it all comes down to, fuel (has had changes in the last few years to unleaded)

Fuel lines and unions

Carb set up and air box

Placement of electrical components.

Condition of wiring

Earth points

Battery cut off placement.

Ignition system

Possible fire resistant GRP

Fire extinguisher system either built in and movable

and the bloke who owns the Elan.

any more suggestions?
User avatar
Brian Walton
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 609
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Arrowtown N.Z.

PostPost by: "S&M WHITREN&quo » Wed Apr 25, 2001 5:40 am

Yes! dont smoke!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Walton - dotco.co.nz" <***@***.***>
To: <***@***.***>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [LotusElan.net] Fire safety.....


So it all comes down to, fuel (has had changes in the last few years to
unleaded)

Fuel lines and unions

Carb set up and air box

Placement of electrical components.

Condition of wiring

Earth points

Battery cut off placement.

Ignition system

Possible fire resistant GRP

Fire extinguisher system either built in and movable

and the bloke who owns the Elan.

any more suggestions?







The Lotus Elan mailing list is provided by .

To Unsubscribe: email ***@***.***

Copyright? 1999, 2000, 2001 LotusElan.net and the email author, all rights
reserved.
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm#copy
Read the Disclaimer!
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm#dis

"S&M WHITREN&quo
 

PostPost by: cliveyboy » Wed Apr 25, 2001 7:08 am

I agree with Brian about fuel changing over the years and I think this has
caused a few problems with rubber fuel hoses and fires.A good idea on any
Lotus is to put braided fuel lines on but you need to be careful as to the
construction of what you are putting on.Some hoses are just rubber with a
steel protective outer which adds a bit of reinforcement and protection to
the rubber.The real good hoses are PTFE liner then rubber and then braiding
these take considerably higher pressures and temperatures so less likely to
fail.Its always worth asking when you buy hoses so you know what you are
getting.
Cliveyboy

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
1972 Elan Sprint FHC
cliveyboy
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 586
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Oxfordshire UK

PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Wed Apr 25, 2001 2:13 pm

While restoring my S3-SS 15 years ago, I had the side panels out to expose the iron girder work in the rocker panels. On S3 and probably S4 Elans, themain battery cable runs down the left side in the rocker. At the front, itclimbs to cross over the pedals and into a hole in the fire wall and out to the solenoid.

The problem that I saw was that the cable was lying right on the sharp outside edge of the channel which is the left edge of the pedal assembly retainer. The edge of the channel had already worn part way through the insulation of the battey cable at that point (edge). I remedied the situation by isolating the cable in one of the insulated aircraft "P" clamps, bolted to thechannel, so that it could no longer rub against the pedal "box".

Assumptions:

1. That my car is LHD but that RHD cars have this feature inside the body shells too and the cable still follows the same path.

2. That S1 & S2 cars, with the battery mounted behind the Off Side or RHseat, the cable is probably routed down the RH rocker panel and crosses over the same pedal "box" channel except on the right hand side of the car.

3. Although the pedal box is part of the body, I would assume that it could be electrically grounded and if the cable were to rub through the insulation, there would be a high current short circuit, probably resulting in FIRE.

Any way to isolate the cable should suffice, even one as crude as several extra layers of tape around the cable at the location of abrasion. I like mymethod (seems more elegant and permanent) of using the "P" clamp, but justdo something. FIRE is a four letter word!

Roger

>> ***@***.*** 04/25/01 01:40AM >>>
Yes! dont smoke!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Walton - dotco.co.nz" <***@***.***>
To: <***@***.***>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [LotusElan.net] Fire safety.....


So it all comes down to, fuel (has had changes in the last few years to
unleaded)

Fuel lines and unions

Carb set up and air box

Placement of electrical components.

Condition of wiring

Earth points

Battery cut off placement.

Ignition system

Possible fire resistant GRP

Fire extinguisher system either built in and movable

and the bloke who owns the Elan.

any more suggestions?







The Lotus Elan mailing list is provided by .

To Unsubscribe: email ***@***.***

Copyright? 1999, 2000, 2001 LotusElan.net and the email author, all rights
reserved.
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm#copy
Read the Disclaimer!
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm#dis







The Lotus Elan mailing list is provided by .

To Unsubscribe: email ***@***.***

Copyright? 1999, 2000, 2001 LotusElan.net and the email author, all rights reserved.
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm#copy
Read the Disclaimer!
http://www.lotuselan.net/legal_stuff.htm#dis

"Roger Sieling"
 

PostPost by: Brian Walton » Wed Apr 25, 2001 9:44 pm

Good point Roger.

Those side rocker panels are made from cement reinforcement steel (got that from a very good source). So if you want
to repair...start looking in a building site!

As far as the cable is concerned I agree. It just sits there awaiting the time to make trouble. Best to additionally
insulate the little bugger.

Brian
User avatar
Brian Walton
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 609
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Arrowtown N.Z.

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests