Roll Bars

[osp13 at ibm.net]

Jeff Cocking wrote:


Jeff,
I ended up going with a custom fabricated bar to get enough height (I'm
6'1"),
at least 30 degrees of angle on the bracing (SCCA Solo2 requirement),
and to
provide the amount of chassis stiffening I desired. The bar attaches at
the
top of the rear strut towers, at the bobbins on the front of the towers,
and at the four seat belt anchoring points at the floor.

The only standard bar I am aware of had additional forward bracing
added.
By the way, the Elan requires lowering, a lot of suspension work, and
very wide wheels to be a decent autocrosser. I don't see how it could be
compatible with vintage racing.

Rich Urschel

[bdea at juno.com]

Hi Jeff: Wanted to know the reponses to your inquires about roll bars for
the elan . I'm looking for a Spyder roll bar for LHD in the used
market,close to the SF Bay Area,but willing to look elsewhere. Any
pros/cons on the construction of this unit ? Some where on the Net , I
thought there was a current importer for Spyder products in NYC. Any
input would surely be appreciated. Bradley Dea,LILOTUS
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[jcocking]

I found two companies that are producing roll bars for the Elan. The one is
sold by Bean and after discussing the item, it was suggested by the staff,
that it was not that good of a rollbar. The best I found was the one by
Safety Devices. About 4 months ago, only JAE had one in the US. It was
reasonably priced. I am at least 6 months (use the normal elan restoration
multiplier of 4 - 2 years) from needing it and have not purchased it.
Safety Devices has a good rep for building roll bars. They are listed on
the vendors page with their web address.

I would be interested in others comments on roll bar options for the Elan.
I plan on occasionally vintage racing, club days, autocrossing the car.
(The main reason: Steve Brightman is in our local lotus club, and need to
show him a rwd elan can kick fwd elan butt) All require a roll bar of some
kind. For our individuals who are active racers, what is your car running?

jeff
S4 SE DHC (only the memories of it running, but it keeps me going)

[ozone.breath]

I can't resist... this is too good....

Jeff C wrote (regarding roll bar procurement):



Around TRW, when doing cost and schedule estimation, we
generally multiply by e when doing costing, or by pi when
doing schedule. A factor of 4, for anything restoration
related, sounds exactly right to me... higher even than
for estimating cost and schedule for actual work related
activities. I think we all tend to be more optimistic
when personal passion is involved.


A worthy endeavor, if there ever was one! We need to uphold
rwd honor. I had the same thing in mind, but Texas is too far
for me to go...

Shall we take up a collection to fund Jeff's roll bar?



Erik
Los Angeles

[Stevie-Heathie]

Spyder also do a roll bar for the elan.

http://www.spyder.co.uk/page3/page3.html

Steve
1970 Plus 2S
Chester, UK

[JohnIngham]

I have a Safety Devices roll bar fitted to my S2 (1964 version, that is),
which is higher than my 6'3". This may be accounted for by the fact that the
seat bottom is broken, so that I'm sitting about 1-1/2" lower than the
standard seat. But at my height, anything that gets me lower down is
welcome. It attaches just as Rich describes below.

I also have side-impact bars and a footwell bar -- these run down the sides
of the body between the ladder frame and the fibreglass shell, and behind
the pedals. While they may add weight they give a wonderful feeling of
security.

Until recently, I used the Elan for hillclimbing. The rollbar definitely
adds stability to the car and allows you to enter a corner faster. Just to
qualify this, my car sits on adjustable platforms, has uprated springs, and
6" tyres.

When I first started hillclimbing I didn't have a rollbar because it
destroys the purity of the Elan's line (you don't need a rollbar in the UK
on pre-65 cars). I quickly changed my mind after I got onto dust in the
Esses at Shelsley Walsh, bounced up onto the banking, and the car started to
roll over while standing still!

Tony Thompson used to advertise a roll bar made from FIA approved
lightweight steel, but it was over 3x as expensive as the Safety Devices
bar. Don't know if he still has them.

Hope this helps,

John

[saarhus]

Rich,
I have a "rollover bar" that I got for my S2 FHC while(st) in England, many
years ago. I believe it was made by John Aley, and I obtained from Mike
Spence. It is braced from the top of the towers and mounted to the tunnel
behind the seat with a large plate and a diagonal attached to another
smaller plate that mounts to the top of the tunnel about six inches behind
the shifter recess in the tunnel cover (whew). It was necessary to cut a
rectangular hole in the tunnel cover for the front mounting point. I have
no idea if it would pass SCCA scrutiny, since I was doing mostly FIA Group 4
in Germany at that time.
This is really a great list! My "restoration has been in progress since
1974, but seeing all this inspirational discussion, I have decided to pick
up the pace a bit. Thanks All!
Stan Aarhus

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Urschel <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, July 30, 1999 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: [lotuselan] Roll Bars

[abstamaria]

To contribute on the topic.

I have a roll-over bar with side-intrusion and footwell bars from Tony
Thompson Racing (TTR) in the UK. TTR's bars are actually made by Safety
Devices, and, if you inquire directly with Safety Devices, they will refer
you to him. In fact they come with Safety Devices stickers.

These bars are, as TTR states, "lightweight steel." From the perspective of
our light-gauge Elan frame, I find them heavy, but I suppose they are as
lightly made as consistent with their purpose. One needs to cut a small
hole in the rear wheel arch to access the door sill to insert the side
intrusion bars. Each intrusion bar then bolts to an athwarthship tube
(underneath the pedals on the driver's side) that bolts to the frame
attachment bolt in that area. The main hoop attaches to the body attachment
points on the rear towers and to the inner frame attachment on the floor.

I have not installed them, but instead had a single hoop on the driver's
side made.of stainless steel tubing, more or less mimicking TTR's design.
This would offer far less protection than TTR's bars and probably will not
be acceptable in most events. They just scrape by the local rules, because
the FIA still allows single hoops for open cars in historic events.
Incidentally, the FIA's Appendix K mentions the Elan specifically and says
that specialized protection is required (the scrutineers seem to have missed
this).

I have no side intrusion or foot protection, simply because I could not
accept installing such heavy devices. I toyed with the idea of
strengthening the door sills and underfoot panels with kevlar, etc., like
current FIA practice. That may be the best way to achieve protection
against intrusion and remain consistent with the Elan's lightweight
philosophy. (Note: the FIA bans the use of Kevlar in any application,
except seats).

I am not a "serious" racer, and go out on the track just to enjoy the car (I
know this is not a good excuse). I would recommend the TTR or Dave Bean's
system as the minimum for the racers in the group. Someone on the Lotus
List (a doctor from Detroit, I recall) had a long explanation on his own
system, which brought the seat mounting points into the roll-over system and
I thought was quite good for the very competitive.

Incidentally, TTR's Elan bodies have the option of strengthened floors to
keep the seat in place. This sounds like a good idea too.

Regards to all,

Andres
Manila
45/8439

[brettengelaz]

I have the Spyder frame, roll-bar and side intrusion bars on my S3. While
allowing the use
of the stock conv. top, the roll-bar is _not_ legal (and I would not want
to use it) for most racing events here in the US. The bar is a reasonable
choice for street and autocross, but needs to
be higher and should be braced forward for any serious uses. There is a
poor picture of
the car on www.lotuselan.net., note that the bar is lower than the
windscreen and just barely
outboard of the seat frames. ( too low and too close for my comfort..)

Has anyone tried to mount the Safety Devices bar to the Spyder frame? If
it is a good fit,
it may be an alternative to a fabricating a custom bar.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Brett Engel PSO Engineer
Cisco Professional Services
(602)-912-1852 [email protected]
Cisco Systems Suite 120
2390 E Camelback Rd Phoenix, AZ 85284
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------

[JohnIngham]

Bengel wrote:


Yes, I have a Safety Devices roll bar and side impact bars fitted to a
Spyder chassis of my S2. The fit is fine, with the sides of the roll bar
just outside the seat area so that they can slide back without hindrance.
The top of the bar just clears my head (6'3"), but with a helmet on I'm
above the bar. The standard hood (roof) fits over the roll bar without any
problems.

The Safety Devices roll bar is legal in the UK for club racing -- not sure
about international standards.

John