Lotus Elan

Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle problem

PostPost by: davidwinegar » Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:06 am

Checked out the exhaust system today and didn't find anything that
would be tuoching the chasis even when running. There is still a deep
vibration coming from somewhere but just cannot track down from where.
I'm just stuck as to where to look--something is not right but what
and where I have no idea.

Any other suggestions what to check out? Before this happened I had
planned to pull the engine this winter for a rebuild so unless someone
has some insight, it might have to wait until then.

David


--- In ***@***.***, "david_c_w" <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Stan--I'm going to look into this tomorrow. It does seem like
a probable cause especially since before coming home the night I had
problem I did "bumb" the bottom on a bad parking lot entry way. I
checked under the car before leaving and didn't see anything and
drove it about 30 minutes before any problems but it can be that there
was something and it just took time to shift into contact.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks again for the pointer.

David



--- In ***@***.***, "Stan Aarhus" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Her's a theory to explore. Assumption: Your exhaust system is
contacting
> the body/chassis or your exhaust hanger is damaged/mis-aligned.
Rationale:
> If this is so, the engine is idling (ticking over) lumpily (rough)
and that
> movement is causing the exhaust system to bump the body at the
rate of

> engine "lumpiness". But, while motoring along, the torque action of
the
> engine moves the exhaust away from its contact point and thus, no
noise.

>
> Stan
>
> Subject: [LotusElan.net] Deep vibration at idle problem
>
>
> > Here's hoping someone can point me in th right direction.
> >
> > Well, I changed the one engine mount on my car that looked
damaged in

> > hopes that this was the cause of the vibration I experienced on the
> > way home--of course it was not. The vibration is still there. The
> > only way to describe it is as a deep thumping vibration that feels
> > like it is coming from under the seat. When I rev the engine it
goes

> > away and this was the case when I was driving home when it
originally

> > ocurred. At speed it was driving about normal, but at idle
something

> > is definately not right.
> >
> > It has me and my mechanic friend a bit stumped. Anyone have an idea
> > of where to look?
> >
> > David
> > +2S Helsinki, Finland
>

davidwinegar
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 150
Joined: 23 May 2004

PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:00 pm

David,

No one has mentioned the tranny mount and this would have been my first
guess. If your engine mounts had perished and the gearbox mount was of
the same age, it would have a good chance of being suspect. Also, the
g'box mount brackets have a habit of fracturing, unless they have been
reinforced. I usually weld the crack(s) and then add the reinforcements
to mine.

Roger

>> ***@***.*** >>>
Checked out the exhaust system today and didn't find anything that

would be tuoching the chasis even when running. There is still a deep
vibration coming from somewhere but just cannot track down from where.
I'm just stuck as to where to look--something is not right but what
and where I have no idea.

Any other suggestions what to check out? Before this happened I had
planned to pull the engine this winter for a rebuild so unless someone
has some insight, it might have to wait until then.

David


--- In ***@***.***, "david_c_w" <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Stan--I'm going to look into this tomorrow. It does seem like
a probable cause especially since before coming home the night I had
problem I did "bumb" the bottom on a bad parking lot entry way. I
checked under the car before leaving and didn't see anything and
drove it about 30 minutes before any problems but it can be that there
was something and it just took time to shift into contact.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks again for the pointer.

David



--- In ***@***.***, "Stan Aarhus" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Her's a theory to explore. Assumption: Your exhaust system is
contacting
> the body/chassis or your exhaust hanger is damaged/mis-aligned.
Rationale:
> If this is so, the engine is idling (ticking over) lumpily (rough)
and that
> movement is causing the exhaust system to bump the body at the
rate of

> engine "lumpiness". But, while motoring along, the torque action of
the
> engine moves the exhaust away from its contact point and thus, no
noise.

>
> Stan
>
> Subject: [LotusElan.net] Deep vibration at idle problem
>
>
> > Here's hoping someone can point me in th right direction.
> >
> > Well, I changed the one engine mount on my car that looked
damaged in

> > hopes that this was the cause of the vibration I experienced on
the

> > way home--of course it was not. The vibration is still there.
The

> > only way to describe it is as a deep thumping vibration that feels
> > like it is coming from under the seat. When I rev the engine it
goes

> > away and this was the case when I was driving home when it
originally

> > ocurred. At speed it was driving about normal, but at idle
something

> > is definately not right.
> >
> > It has me and my mechanic friend a bit stumped. Anyone have an
idea

> > of where to look?
> >
> > David
> > +2S Helsinki, Finland
>

"Roger Sieling"
 

PostPost by: rodbean » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:22 pm

David,

Try the u-joint in the drive shaft. It's not easy to remove if that's
the problem but I suspect it might be.

Rod Bean
S1 & S2 Elans
User avatar
rodbean
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 84
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, California, USA

PostPost by: davidwinegar » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:35 pm

HI Rod,

Just wonderng would the u-joint be vibrating even when not in gear?

Also, how the heck do I get at it to check it?

Still haven't yet had a chance to check the other mounts so those are
also possibilities.

David

--- In ***@***.***, Rod Bean <[email protected]> wrote:
David,

Try the u-joint in the drive shaft. It's not easy to remove if that's
the problem but I suspect it might be.

Rod Bean
S1 & S2 Elans

davidwinegar
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 150
Joined: 23 May 2004

PostPost by: tvacc » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:07 pm

The only way the drive shaft vibration would not be felt is if the car is
not moving...and in neutral. Is is being felt when the car is NOT moving?



I had a very deep vibration on my Elan..tried everything. Got to the point
where I could remove the prop shaft in under 20 minutes. Had it balanced
many times.but it was only when I took it to a new digital balancer..that it
got fixed. It was out of balance.



Tony Vaccaro



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of david_c_w
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:33 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle problem



HI Rod,

Just wonderng would the u-joint be vibrating even when not in gear?

Also, how the heck do I get at it to check it?

Still haven't yet had a chance to check the other mounts so those are
also possibilities.

David

--- In ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, Rod
Bean <[email protected]> wrote:
David,

Try the u-joint in the drive shaft. It's not easy to remove if that's
the problem but I suspect it might be.

Rod Bean
S1 & S2 Elans

Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: elangtv2000 » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:35 pm

Tony,
What are your tips for such quick prop shaft removal?
Thank you,
Greg Tatarian
Elan S4

Tony Vaccaro wrote:

The only way the drive shaft vibration would not be felt is if the car is
not moving...and in neutral. Is is being felt when the car is NOT moving?



I had a very deep vibration on my Elan..tried everything. Got to the point
where I could remove the prop shaft in under 20 minutes. Had it balanced
many times.but it was only when I took it to a new digital balancer..that it
got fixed. It was out of balance.



Tony Vaccaro





User avatar
elangtv2000
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 220
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA

PostPost by: tvacc » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:21 am

Now?keep in mind two things?this was well over 13 years ago..1992 or so..and
I do have a lift in my garage.



You first remove the 4 bolts holding the prop shaft to the diff flange. You
then take off the tranny mount. You can then jack up the tranny enough to
slide the prop shaft back towards the diff (you have to angle it up to clear
the diff)?enough to get it free from the end of the tranny extension?and
then bring it out the front. That simple. I don?t think that there was any
more to it. I don?t know if I had to remove the starter?but maybe. Don?t
know why you would?but something tells me I did. And then I may be getting
confused on the starter removal with my Seven Crossflow?which I had to
remove to take of the pan the 10 times I did so to weld the pan?It got to be
I could do that in less than ? hour.





Any more help?let me know. If you were near Buffalo?we could do it here.



Tony Vaccaro



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Greg Tatarian
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:32 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle
problem



Tony,
What are your tips for such quick prop shaft removal?
Thank you,
Greg Tatarian
Elan S4

Tony Vaccaro wrote:

The only way the drive shaft vibration would not be felt is if the car is
not moving...and in neutral. Is is being felt when the car is NOT moving?



I had a very deep vibration on my Elan..tried everything. Got to the point
where I could remove the prop shaft in under 20 minutes. Had it balanced
many times.but it was only when I took it to a new digital balancer..that
it

got fixed. It was out of balance.



Tony Vaccaro





Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: davidwinegar » Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:34 am

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify the situation with my car is
that the ibration is at its worst when it is in neutral and at idle.
At speed it seems to be about normal. So if I understand correctly,
this does not point to the prop shaft as the car would rightly need to
be moving for this to be a problem.

I guess I am back to looking at the mounts.

David

--- In ***@***.***, "Tony Vaccaro" <[email protected]> wrote:
The only way the drive shaft vibration would not be felt is if the
car is

not moving...and in neutral. Is is being felt when the car is NOT
moving?




I had a very deep vibration on my Elan..tried everything. Got to the
point

where I could remove the prop shaft in under 20 minutes. Had it
balanced

many times.but it was only when I took it to a new digital
balancer..that it

got fixed. It was out of balance.



Tony Vaccaro



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
On Behalf

Of david_c_w
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:33 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle
problem




HI Rod,

Just wonderng would the u-joint be vibrating even when not in gear?

Also, how the heck do I get at it to check it?

Still haven't yet had a chance to check the other mounts so those are
also possibilities.

David

--- In ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>
ps.com, Rod

Bean <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> Try the u-joint in the drive shaft. It's not easy to remove if that's
> the problem but I suspect it might be.
>
> Rod Bean
> S1 & S2 Elans
>







davidwinegar
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 150
Joined: 23 May 2004

PostPost by: "William \"Skip » Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:59 am

I haven't been following this thread.... So if this has already been
mentioned please ignore.... check to see if the carb air box is hitting
against the fiberglass shelf.

Skip King

david_c_w wrote:
Hi Tony,

Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify the situation with my car is
that the ibration is at its worst when it is in neutral and at idle.
At speed it seems to be about normal. So if I understand correctly,
this does not point to the prop shaft as the car would rightly need to
be moving for this to be a problem.

I guess I am back to looking at the mounts.

David

--- In ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>,
"Tony Vaccaro" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The only way the drive shaft vibration would not be felt is if the
car is
> not moving...and in neutral. Is is being felt when the car is NOT
moving?
>
>
>
> I had a very deep vibration on my Elan..tried everything. Got to the
point
> where I could remove the prop shaft in under 20 minutes. Had it
balanced
> many times.but it was only when I took it to a new digital
balancer..that it
> got fixed. It was out of balance.
>
>
>
> Tony Vaccaro
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf
> Of david_c_w
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:33 PM
> To: ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle
problem
>
>
>
> HI Rod,
>
> Just wonderng would the u-joint be vibrating even when not in gear?
>
> Also, how the heck do I get at it to check it?
>
> Still haven't yet had a chance to check the other mounts so those are
> also possibilities.
>
> David
>
> --- In ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>
ps.com, Rod
> Bean <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > David,
> >
> > Try the u-joint in the drive shaft. It's not easy to remove if that's
> > the problem but I suspect it might be.
> >
> > Rod Bean
> > S1 & S2 Elans
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


"William \"Skip
 

PostPost by: tvacc » Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:00 am

Yes..the prop would have to be moving (car in motion) for it to be the prop
shaft or the u joint.



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of david_c_w
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:35 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle problem



Hi Tony,

Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify the situation with my car is
that the ibration is at its worst when it is in neutral and at idle.
At speed it seems to be about normal. So if I understand correctly,
this does not point to the prop shaft as the car would rightly need to
be moving for this to be a problem.

I guess I am back to looking at the mounts.

David

--- In ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,
"Tony Vaccaro" <[email protected]> wrote:
The only way the drive shaft vibration would not be felt is if the
car is

not moving...and in neutral. Is is being felt when the car is NOT
moving?




I had a very deep vibration on my Elan..tried everything. Got to the
point

where I could remove the prop shaft in under 20 minutes. Had it
balanced

many times.but it was only when I took it to a new digital
balancer..that it

got fixed. It was out of balance.



Tony Vaccaro



_____

From: ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
[mailto:***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com]

On Behalf
Of david_c_w
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:33 PM
To: ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle
problem




HI Rod,

Just wonderng would the u-joint be vibrating even when not in gear?

Also, how the heck do I get at it to check it?

Still haven't yet had a chance to check the other mounts so those are
also possibilities.

David

--- In ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>
ps.com, Rod

Bean <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> Try the u-joint in the drive shaft. It's not easy to remove if that's
> the problem but I suspect it might be.
>
> Rod Bean
> S1 & S2 Elans
>







Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: tvacc » Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:20 am

You can try one more thing.



Since the car is not moving..and it is at idle..



Take a broom stick.without the broom. Put one end to your ear.and the other
end start putting it at different points on the car. It will act like a
stethoscope.and you should be able to isolate it. If you have a friend with
a drive on lift.you can do it from under the car.



Tony Vaccaro



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of William "Skip" King
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:01 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle
problem



I haven't been following this thread.... So if this has already been
mentioned please ignore.... check to see if the carb air box is hitting
against the fiberglass shelf.

Skip King

david_c_w wrote:
Hi Tony,

Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify the situation with my car is
that the ibration is at its worst when it is in neutral and at idle.
At speed it seems to be about normal. So if I understand correctly,
this does not point to the prop shaft as the car would rightly need to
be moving for this to be a problem.

I guess I am back to looking at the mounts.

David

--- In ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
<mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>,

"Tony Vaccaro" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The only way the drive shaft vibration would not be felt is if the
car is
> not moving...and in neutral. Is is being felt when the car is NOT
moving?
>
>
>
> I had a very deep vibration on my Elan..tried everything. Got to the
point
> where I could remove the prop shaft in under 20 minutes. Had it
balanced
> many times.but it was only when I took it to a new digital
balancer..that it
> got fixed. It was out of balance.
>
>
>
> Tony Vaccaro
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
<mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
<mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>]

On Behalf
> Of david_c_w
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:33 PM
> To: ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
<mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle
problem
>
>
>
> HI Rod,
>
> Just wonderng would the u-joint be vibrating even when not in gear?
>
> Also, how the heck do I get at it to check it?
>
> Still haven't yet had a chance to check the other mounts so those are
> also possibilities.
>
> David
>
> --- In ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>
ps.com, Rod
> Bean <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > David,
> >
> > Try the u-joint in the drive shaft. It's not easy to remove if that's
> > the problem but I suspect it might be.
> >
> > Rod Bean
> > S1 & S2 Elans
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: lotuselanman » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:40 am

Loose flywheel.







----- Original Message -----
From: david_c_w
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:34 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle problem


Hi Tony,

Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify the situation with my car is
that the ibration is at its worst when it is in neutral and at idle.
At speed it seems to be about normal. So if I understand correctly,
this does not point to the prop shaft as the car would rightly need to
be moving for this to be a problem.

I guess I am back to looking at the mounts.

David

--- In ***@***.***, "Tony Vaccaro" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The only way the drive shaft vibration would not be felt is if the
car is
> not moving...and in neutral. Is is being felt when the car is NOT
moving?
>
>
>
> I had a very deep vibration on my Elan..tried everything. Got to the
point
> where I could remove the prop shaft in under 20 minutes. Had it
balanced
> many times.but it was only when I took it to a new digital
balancer..that it
> got fixed. It was out of balance.
>
>
>
> Tony Vaccaro
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
On Behalf
> Of david_c_w
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:33 PM
> To: ***@***.***
> Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Stil no luck--- Deep vibration at idle
problem
>
>
>
> HI Rod,
>
> Just wonderng would the u-joint be vibrating even when not in gear?
>
> Also, how the heck do I get at it to check it?
>
> Still haven't yet had a chance to check the other mounts so those are
> also possibilities.
>
> David
>
> --- In ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com>
ps.com, Rod
> Bean <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > David,
> >
> > Try the u-joint in the drive shaft. It's not easy to remove if that's
> > the problem but I suspect it might be.
> >
> > Rod Bean
> > S1 & S2 Elans
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.3/445 - Release Date: 11/09/2006
lotuselanman
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 170
Joined: 20 Jul 2004

PostPost by: rodbean » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:57 pm

David,

Sorry for not reading your email closely enough. Of course you said you
got this vibration even when the wasn't moving. Also, I've bee
traveling so I haven't seen various posts on this until now.

rod
User avatar
rodbean
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 84
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, California, USA

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests