Lotus Elan

brake leak-help

PostPost by: rdssdi » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:47 pm

I have filled my new brake system with fluid for the first time.

I had several loose fittings that leaked and have been tightened and are now
leak free.

I do have leaks that persist. The right front and left rear calipers. They
are leaking at the banjo fitting. I have installed Dave Bean supplied braided
flex lines. The calipers were rebuilt and clean. The alloy washers that were
supplied with the banjo bolt are not to sealing.

Has anyone had a similar problem with the AN type banjo and fittings?

Bob
1969 Elan +2
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PostPost by: Briggs1 » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:52 pm

Bob,



Have you tried cranking them down more to crush the washer?



If the mating surface of the caliper is not FLAT then the washer may not
seal. If they can not be tightened more then take off the banjo bolt and
make sure the mating surface is FLAT (use a fine file).



Hope that helps.



Briggs Pletcher



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 3:45 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] brake leak-help



I have filled my new brake system with fluid for the first time.

I had several loose fittings that leaked and have been tightened and are now

leak free.

I do have leaks that persist. The right front and left rear calipers. They
are leaking at the banjo fitting. I have installed Dave Bean supplied
braided
flex lines. The calipers were rebuilt and clean. The alloy washers that were

supplied with the banjo bolt are not to sealing.

Has anyone had a similar problem with the AN type banjo and fittings?

Bob
1969 Elan +2
Briggs1
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Location: Delaware , USA

PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:11 pm

Bob,

I like copper washers on banjo bolts, rather than the aluminum alloy
that some people supply. Copper seems to be softer and conform to the
irregularities better. But get the banjo and bolt surfaces as clean and
smooth as you can before putting it all together. Also, make sure the
washer diameters are a close fit to the bolt. If your existing supplier
doesn't have close fitting copper, go elsewhere. Even Pep boys have soft
copper washers. If they don't have the exact size, buy the next size
smaller and enlarge the hole. I have a tapered hand reamer, T-shaped
tool I would use to do that myself, maybe available at plumbers supply
or maybe Lowes/ Home Depot or your local Ace Hdwr store. Mine is tapered
to fit down to about 3/16" [5mm] and up to 1/2" [13mm] and about 5"
long. You also have to have these things pretty snug when you tighten
them.

Roger

>> ***@***.*** >>>
Bob,




Have you tried cranking them down more to crush the washer?



If the mating surface of the caliper is not FLAT then the washer may not
seal. If they can not be tightened more then take off the banjo bolt
and
make sure the mating surface is FLAT (use a fine file).



Hope that helps.



Briggs Pletcher



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 3:45 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] brake leak-help



I have filled my new brake system with fluid for the first time.

I had several loose fittings that leaked and have been tightened and are
now

leak free.

I do have leaks that persist. The right front and left rear calipers.
They
are leaking at the banjo fitting. I have installed Dave Bean supplied
braided
flex lines. The calipers were rebuilt and clean. The alloy washers that
were

supplied with the banjo bolt are not to sealing.

Has anyone had a similar problem with the AN type banjo and fittings?

Bob
1969 Elan +2
"Roger Sieling"
 

PostPost by: gwnorth68 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:18 pm

I agree with the copper washer approach. Over many many cars and some less than pristine calipers on many British cars I have never had a banjo fitting that wouldn't eventually seal. Of course the size of the wrench did get a little excessive sometimes but eventually the soft copper gets extruded enough to seal. The thread on the bajo fitting bolt is robust enough to take a lot of torque.
Tom Moore
Tom
'68 Elan S3 Roadster, '72 MGB, FFR Roadster Cxbxa Replica, 2001 Saab 9.3
Bolton Ouest, Quebec
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PostPost by: 66S2 » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:03 pm

Has anyone had a similar problem with the AN type banjo and
fittings?

Bob

I believe your calipers are intended to seal with a Bubble Flair down
at the bottom of the hole. Unless you machine a flat surface around
the hole, banjo seals might not work.

I believe normal practice is a short length of bubble flaired bundy
tubing to a double flair AN bulkhead mounted union. Then AN braided
hose and away you go.

I see Bubble Flair to Inverted Flair (AN?) adapters in the Bean
English Ford Racers Catalog - maybe this is what you need?


makeschips
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PostPost by: rdssdi » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:37 pm

You are correct. It had been so long since I dismantled the brakes. The
front calipers were plumbed with a hard line to a "bulkhead fitting" mounted on a
small metal bracket then to the flex line. The rear calipers were plumbed
with a hard line to a small tab on the dirt shields.

The flex AN lines that Dave Bean sells are supposed to attach to the
calipers directly using a new banjo bolt.


It very well may be that I will have to resort to a short section of hard
line to a bulkhead fitting.

I have not retained the dirt shields in the rear so I will have to determine
how to mount a bracket for the bulkhead fittings.

Bob
1969 Elan +2
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PostPost by: rdssdi » Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:18 pm

I see Dave Bean lists a brake line adapter that is "nose sealing". The other
side is a female (3/8-24) but I am unsure if it will accept a banjo. I
assume the flex hose would have to be changed to a 90deg. standard fitting.

Has anyone on the list have a flex line that attaches directly to the
caliper? Was this factory or aftermarket and how was it accomplished.

thanks

bob
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PostPost by: patrics » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:14 am

Hi Bob, a bit late replying but..

I have never had problems sealing banjos on these calipers. Just make sure
that the sealing face is clean and without scratches. I would also use
copper washers but before using, heat them to red heat and quench in cold
water - this will make them nice and soft. There are also different types of
banjo bolt available - I think you need a series 1 but if necessary I'll
check in work next week.

Regards

Steve



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: 29 July 2006 22:14
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: brake leak-help



I see Dave Bean lists a brake line adapter that is "nose sealing". The other

side is a female (3/8-24) but I am unsure if it will accept a banjo. I
assume the flex hose would have to be changed to a 90deg. standard fitting.

Has anyone on the list have a flex line that attaches directly to the
caliper? Was this factory or aftermarket and how was it accomplished.

thanks

bob
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