Lotus Elan

Prince of Darkness strikes again

PostPost by: StressCraxx » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:06 am

Jon,

I feel your pain. It happened to me too. I also had the pinion foul with the ring gear and lock itself tight. No matter what I tried, I could not rock the car enough to release the pinion from the ring gear. I finally had to roll the right side wheels up on the curb and crawl underneath to loosen both starter bolts before it would release. Ugh. That was a lousy afternoon in downtown Denver.

The Lucas starter with 1/4" slop in the shaft/bushing fit is done. For about $20 more than a genuine Lucas rebuilt, you can buy a modern gear reduction starter from one of the usual suspects.

The new reduction starter will use 1/2 the current of Lucas and crank every time, just like a Honda Civic. It will also sound like you are cranking a Civic...

I put one in 10 years and 20,000 miles ago. It was absolutely worth the extra 20 bucks.

I installed a new ring gear on the flywheel too. Heated the ring gear up in the oven. chilled the flywheel in the freezer. Put a 1/2" stack of newspaper on the kitchen floor.

Out comes the flywheel from the freezer.
Out comes the ring gear from the oven.
Immediately commence pounding the ring gear onto the flywheel on the kitchen floor as the wife enters the house with arms loaded with groceries. For some reason she was upset with my use of the kitchen appliances.

I now heat the ring gear on the gas grill outside when no one is expected home.....

Regards,
Dan

Re: Starter Motors: Update
Posted by: "***@***.***"
***@***.***ie5412
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:00 pm (PDT)

10:30 PM Eastern USA time

Decided to get a jump start on things to avoid the impending heat wave
here
tomorrow, so I pulled the starter after finding that the electrical
connections, including grounds, to it seemed OK. For those who have
yet to
remove the starter, I found that the upper mounting bolt was easier to
get
at from the top of the motor than from underneath the car. After
getting
the starter out, I noticed that there was about a quarter inch play in
the
shaft and wondered what the limit should be (still do).

The real shocker came when I went to check the ring gear and found that
it
had released from the flywheel!! What the *#@^!

Is there any hope of repairing this without pulling the motor?

Optimistically,
Jon Eckman




---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
There is no cure for Lotus, only treatment.
User avatar
StressCraxx
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1031
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California

PostPost by: "Elton E. (Tony) Cla » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:37 am

*Highly reccommend that, after shrinking the gear on the flywheel, do about
3 or 4 tack welds as well. We used up ALL out luck on the Lotus 51 formula
Ford in Ferbruary . . The ring gear came off the flywheel on the grid . .
we thought we'd broken a bendix. . . we push started and ran practice with
the ring gear lodged in the bell housing without it ever touching
anything!!! It should have jarred loose at 6000 rpm and "sawed the car in
two! All luck is expended. *

On 7/15/06, Dan Wise <***@***.***> wrote:
.




Jon,

I feel your pain. It happened to me too. I also had the pinion foul with the
ring gear and lock itself tight. No matter what I tried, I could not rock
the car enough to release the pinion from the ring gear. I finally had to
roll the right side wheels up on the curb and crawl underneath to loosen
both starter bolts before it would release. Ugh. That was a lousy afternoon
in downtown Denver.

The Lucas starter with 1/4" slop in the shaft/bushing fit is done. For about
$20 more than a genuine Lucas rebuilt, you can buy a modern gear reduction
starter from one of the usual suspects.

The new reduction starter will use 1/2 the current of Lucas and crank every
time, just like a Honda Civic. It will also sound like you are cranking a
Civic...

I put one in 10 years and 20,000 miles ago. It was absolutely worth the
extra 20 bucks.

I installed a new ring gear on the flywheel too. Heated the ring gear up in
the oven. chilled the flywheel in the freezer. Put a 1/2" stack of newspaper
on the kitchen floor.

Out comes the flywheel from the freezer.
Out comes the ring gear from the oven.
Immediately commence pounding the ring gear onto the flywheel on the kitchen
floor as the wife enters the house with arms loaded with groceries. For some
reason she was upset with my use of the kitchen appliances.

I now heat the ring gear on the gas grill outside when no one is expected
home.....

Regards,
Dan

Re: Starter Motors: Update
Posted by: " ***@***.***kman%40fischelproperties.com>"

***@***.*** <j_eckman%40fischelproperties.com>lizzie5412
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:00 pm (PDT)

10:30 PM Eastern USA time

Decided to get a jump start on things to avoid the impending heat wave
here
tomorrow, so I pulled the starter after finding that the electrical
connections, including grounds, to it seemed OK. For those who have
yet to
remove the starter, I found that the upper mounting bolt was easier to
get
at from the top of the motor than from underneath the car. After
getting
the starter out, I noticed that there was about a quarter inch play in
the
shaft and wondered what the limit should be (still do).

The real shocker came when I went to check the ring gear and found that
it
had released from the flywheel!! What the *#@^!

Is there any hope of repairing this without pulling the motor?

Optimistically,
Jon Eckman


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2?/min or less.



Messages in this topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan/message/39963;_ylc=X3oDMTM1bWQ2dTgzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEbXNnSWQDMzk5NjMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTUzMDA4MzYyBHRwY0lkAzM5OTYz>
(1) Reply (via web post)
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwczZ0amoyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEbXNnSWQDMzk5NjMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMTUzMDA4MzYy?act=reply&messageNum=39963>|
Start a new topic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdm1mN2EwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMTUzMDA4MzYy>
Messages<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMHFvZTAxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMTUzMDA4MzYy>|
Files<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlc2xwNmMwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTE1MzAwODM2Mg-->|
Photos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdjdnY2xqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMTUzMDA4MzYy>|
Links<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJldms4OHZhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGlua3MEc3RpbWUDMTE1MzAwODM2Mg-->|
Polls<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMWh1ZWtxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcG9sbHMEc3RpbWUDMTE1MzAwODM2Mg-->|
Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJkc3RnZ3NsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMTUzMDA4MzYy>

<http://www.lotuselan.net/>

[image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNWptNDEwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzExNTMwMDgzNjI->You
are receiving Individual Emails Change
Delivery Settings
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaWw5dGtrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDc3RuZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE1MzAwODM2Mg-->
Visit Your Group
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan;_ylc=X3oDMTJjcXRsOTNmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMzY5NQRncnBzcElkAzE2MDA1NDM4NTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmBHN0aW1lAzExNTMwMDgzNjI->|
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>| Unsubscribe
<***@***.***ect=Unsubscribe>
"Elton E. (Tony) Cla
 

PostPost by: gwnorth68 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:51 am

I just this morning installed a Gustafson geared starter bought from RD Enterprises after getting tired of the constant suspense with the Lucas starter. Took about an hour and went in without a hitch, retaining the original solenoid switch on the firewall. Had to make one small jumper wire from the main battery lead terminal to the solenoid terminal, about 3" long. My S3 (generator, positive ground) promptly started just like a real car. Best $175 I've spent this week.Also lighter and better accessability than the original Lucas starter.
Tom Moore
Tom
'68 Elan S3 Roadster, '72 MGB, FFR Roadster Cxbxa Replica, 2001 Saab 9.3
Bolton Ouest, Quebec
gwnorth68
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Bolton Ouest,Quebec

PostPost by: TYPE45 at aol.com » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:08 am

In a message dated 7/15/06 07:06:32 PM, ***@***.***es:

<< The new reduction starter will use 1/2 the current of Lucas and crank
every time, just like a Honda Civic. It will also sound like you are cranking a
Civic... >>

It will also sound like you are cranking a Chrysler. I knew that Chrysler
was using a Nippondenso starter on most of their products and when I yanked the
4 speed transaxle out of my '92 Grand Caravan last summer, I compared the
starter to the new one I had recently purchased from Tingle's for the Elan. They
are practically identical save for the mounting plate and the pinion gear.

It certainly is reassuring that every time I start the Elan, I am using a
starter that is capable of starting a 3.3 or 3.8 litre V6 reliably.

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
TYPE45 at aol.com
 

PostPost by: "Jon Eckman" » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:48 pm

I suppose I should be thankful that this happened with the car
sitting in my driveway.

Thanks for the starter info - seems the consensus is that the gear
reduction style is the way to go, so that's what I'm going to do.

In the meantime, as Frank points out, who knows what other delights
await once the motor comes out.

Jon Eckman
"Jon Eckman"
 

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests