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Starter Motors

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:16 pm
by Jon Eckman
Thanks to all that responded - some good tips, as usual! How about a
graphite powder as a compromise between a fluid lubricant and none at
all?

In any event, looks like I'm in for a hot session tomorrow as it's
expected to be in the 90s with equal humidity here in CT.

Jon

Starter Motors: Update

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:00 am
by Jon Eckman
10:30 PM Eastern USA time

Decided to get a jump start on things to avoid the impending heat wave here
tomorrow, so I pulled the starter after finding that the electrical
connections, including grounds, to it seemed OK. For those who have yet to
remove the starter, I found that the upper mounting bolt was easier to get
at from the top of the motor than from underneath the car. After getting
the starter out, I noticed that there was about a quarter inch play in the
shaft and wondered what the limit should be (still do).

The real shocker came when I went to check the ring gear and found that it
had released from the flywheel!! What the *#@^!

Is there any hope of repairing this without pulling the motor?

Optimistically,
Jon Eckman






- ----------------
From: Jon Eckman ***@***.***
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:47:04 -0000
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Starter Motors


Thanks to all that responded - some good tips, as usual! How about a
graphite powder as a compromise between a fluid lubricant and none at
all?

In any event, looks like I'm in for a hot session tomorrow as it's
expected to be in the 90s with equal humidity here in CT.

Jon






--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

Starter Motors: Update

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:09 am
by Frank Howard
Jon,

As I recall, the inside of the ring gear is slightly smaller that the outside
of the flywheel and the ring gear must be heated before fitting it to the
flywheel. Once it is fitted, it shrinks as it cools and holds on to the flywheel
until it is heated again for removal. I could be wrong about this. If your
ring gear released from the flywheel, chances are that it broke, probably
where it was welded together to make the circle in the first place. Looks like a
new ring gear as well as an engine hoist are in order. I hope I'm wrong about
this! (Once you get it out, you'll probably elect to buy a new gasket set in
order to fix half of those pesky leaks along with a water pump rebuild kit to
avoid yanking the head in the future to fix a leaky water pump, not to
mention a clutch set and a.........)

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota

Starter Motors: Update

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:40 am
by Martin_StuartUK
Fraid you are looking at an engine-out job, Jon.

As Frank has already said, the new ring gear (whatever the reason for it coming off, it would be false economy to try and refit the old one) has to be heated to expand it for fitting. It shrinks onto the flywheel as it cools.

Sorry

Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: ***@***.***
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 3:59 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Starter Motors: Update


10:30 PM Eastern USA time

Decided to get a jump start on things to avoid the impending heat wave here
tomorrow, so I pulled the starter after finding that the electrical
connections, including grounds, to it seemed OK. For those who have yet to
remove the starter, I found that the upper mounting bolt was easier to get
at from the top of the motor than from underneath the car. After getting
the starter out, I noticed that there was about a quarter inch play in the
shaft and wondered what the limit should be (still do).

The real shocker came when I went to check the ring gear and found that it
had released from the flywheel!! What the *#@^!

Is there any hope of repairing this without pulling the motor?

Optimistically,
Jon Eckman

- ----------------
From: Jon Eckman ***@***.***
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:47:04 -0000
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Starter Motors

Thanks to all that responded - some good tips, as usual! How about a
graphite powder as a compromise between a fluid lubricant and none at
all?

In any event, looks like I'm in for a hot session tomorrow as it's
expected to be in the 90s with equal humidity here in CT.

Jon

----------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

starter motors

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:11 pm
by Petter Hval
Hi.
Anyone out there who could explain the difference
between an inertia type and a pre-engaged type
starter motor?
Regards
Petter

starter motors

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:36 pm
by fjselan at aol.com
the lucas starter does not work. Super starters do.
Finn

starter motors

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:36 pm
by dougweall
Petter,

If you have been following Bob's thread about starter cables then I mentioned that I have a Brise starter bought from Burton Power.

It engages with the ring gear before spinning the engine over, hence no banging and crashing of the inertia type.
This one spins as you turn the key and then engages with the ring gear.

Doug


starter motors

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:00 pm
by Rob_LaMoreaux

The inertia starter engages the gear on the starter by spinning the motor
and the inertia of the drive gear causes it to spin into the flywheel along
the path threaded on the motor shaft.

Pre-engaged starter motors have a winding that pulls in the gear to the
flywheel then closes contacts to start the motor turning.

Both work fine as long as everything is in good shape and the power and
grounds to the motor are good. The inertial starter can grind your flywheel
away if the threads on the shaft are mangled or dirty, or the voltage at the
motor is low so the motor starts at too slow an acceleration.

If the pre-engaged starter has a bad power feed it will pull in the gear
then do nothing except dim the lights or it will turn the motor very slowly.

Many people prefer the pre-engaged starter since most Elan's have poor power
feeds and it works better in this situation.

I have never had a problem with my Lucas starter, and if it ever does die I
would have to think hard before deciding whether the pre-engaged starter is
worth double.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
Cell (734)-604-9280
Email: ***@***.***
Too many Hobbies.... Too Little Time
1969 Lotus Elan....It's not a restoration, it's a never-ending adventure.

starter motors

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:38 pm
by Petter Hval
Hi. Dough, Finn and Rob.
I replaced my starter with a rebuildt Lucas unit from P. Matty (?25.-) 2 years ago,
and it has never disappointed me. According to Burton`s parts catalog the 2
diferent types of starter motors require diferen types of ring gears ( engine out job )
so I`ll stay with the Lucas lump.
Regards
Petter

----- Original Message -----
From: rob_lamoreaux
To: ***@***.*** ; 'petterhval'
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] starter motors


>
> Hi.
> Anyone out there who could explain the difference
> between an inertia type and a pre-engaged type
> starter motor?
> Regards
> Petter
>

The inertia starter engages the gear on the starter by spinning the motor
and the inertia of the drive gear causes it to spin into the flywheel along
the path threaded on the motor shaft.

Pre-engaged starter motors have a winding that pulls in the gear to the
flywheel then closes contacts to start the motor turning.

Both work fine as long as everything is in good shape and the power and
grounds to the motor are good. The inertial starter can grind your flywheel
away if the threads on the shaft are mangled or dirty, or the voltage at the
motor is low so the motor starts at too slow an acceleration.

If the pre-engaged starter has a bad power feed it will pull in the gear
then do nothing except dim the lights or it will turn the motor very slowly.

Many people prefer the pre-engaged starter since most Elan's have poor power
feeds and it works better in this situation.

I have never had a problem with my Lucas starter, and if it ever does die I
would have to think hard before deciding whether the pre-engaged starter is
worth double.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
Cell (734)-604-9280
Email: ***@***.***
Too many Hobbies.... Too Little Time
1969 Lotus Elan....It's not a restoration, it's a never-ending adventure.

starter motors

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:38 pm
by dougweall
Hi Petter,
I am a bit surprised by what you say about the Burton parts catalog.
I ordered a Brise unit from them and nothing was ever mentioned about needing to
know what ring gear I had fitted.
I appreciate the Brise starter is a pricey item but in my opinion well worth the piece of mind,
now I have had a fair amount of use out of it.

Kind regards,

Doug.



starter motors

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:10 pm
by Martin_StuartUK
I had a Crossflow engined Westfield many years ago, that had a pre-engaged starter motor fitted when I bought it. The solenoid knocked against a chassis tube due to insufficient clearance, so I converted it to a pre-engaged type.


Of course, it probably isn't as critical doing the conversion the other way round, since the pinion of a pre-engaged starter isn't spinning as it is thrown into mesh, but with the inertia type I was advised that the pinion would chew itself to bits pretty quickly if the chamfer on the ring gear wasn't there to help it.

Martin


----- Original Message -----
From: ***@***.***
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] starter motors


Hi Petter,
I am a bit surprised by what you say about the Burton parts catalog.
I ordered a Brise unit from them and nothing was ever mentioned about needing to
know what ring gear I had fitted.
I appreciate the Brise starter is a pricey item but in my opinion well worth the piece of mind,
now I have had a fair amount of use out of it.

Kind regards,

Doug.

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starter motors

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:34 pm
by dougweall
Martin,
Thanks for that it makes sense.
Doug.