Lotus Elan

Ignition coil still getting too hot,,,

PostPost by: "mooremfg" » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:31 pm

Have had problems with my 1970 Elan S4, SE not starting after being
warm. Will start right up first try when cold.
After a trip in May, the car would not start, ( NO SPARK or
weak spark). Then it flooded 1st and 2nd cylinder, when it did finally
start, ( we compressioned started by rolling down a hill) it was firing
on #3 and #4 only till the head got hot enough to fire #1 and #2.
Any how, I replaced everything, thought I might have a ground
problem in my old ,original Lucas 25 D distributor.
Now I have a Brand new, JAE pertonix loaded Lucas 25d Replica
distributor, New Lucas Gold sport coil, New Silicone wires, Cars starts
and runs great, but the coil is almost to hot to touch after a good 4
mile run.
I am stumped, will be ready to take it in to an Auto Electric
shop next week for diagnosis,, any ideas?? Could it be my alternator
pushing out too much current to the coil? My New smiths volt meter
shows 11 volts at start , and about 12.5-13 volts at running speed.
Could I have a ground problem at my distributor ? ( My engine block is
oily. )Any help would be great.. Or maybe the coil being so hot is
normal?? I dont want it to boil apart.
"mooremfg"
 

PostPost by: tvacc » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:29 pm

Coils do get hot.but don't know what it too hot. Did you replace the coil?



I might do that first. It just may be a bad coil.



Tony Vaccaro



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of mooremfg
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:18 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Ignition coil still getting too hot,,,



Have had problems with my 1970 Elan S4, SE not starting after being
warm. Will start right up first try when cold.
After a trip in May, the car would not start, ( NO SPARK or
weak spark). Then it flooded 1st and 2nd cylinder, when it did finally
start, ( we compressioned started by rolling down a hill) it was firing
on #3 and #4 only till the head got hot enough to fire #1 and #2.
Any how, I replaced everything, thought I might have a ground
problem in my old ,original Lucas 25 D distributor.
Now I have a Brand new, JAE pertonix loaded Lucas 25d Replica
distributor, New Lucas Gold sport coil, New Silicone wires, Cars starts
and runs great, but the coil is almost to hot to touch after a good 4
mile run.
I am stumped, will be ready to take it in to an Auto Electric
shop next week for diagnosis,, any ideas?? Could it be my alternator
pushing out too much current to the coil? My New smiths volt meter
shows 11 volts at start , and about 12.5-13 volts at running speed.
Could I have a ground problem at my distributor ? ( My engine block is
oily. )Any help would be great.. Or maybe the coil being so hot is
normal?? I dont want it to boil apart.
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
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PostPost by: daves56 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:33 pm

I thought the reason for the ballast resistor was to reduce the current
through the coil and points? With lower current the points will last
longer (less burning) and the coil won't get as hot. If you have 12.5 to
13 volts at the coil it doesn't sound like you're running a resistor.



I believe the Pertonix module requires a coil resistance of at least 4
ohms. But I imagine a sport coil is probably very close. At 13 volts, 4
ohms that's about 42 watts. I think what you're seeing (coil getting
hot) is normal for your setup.



That's my opinion.



Dave Sutcliffe

69' Elan +2

77' Esprit V8



________________________________

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of mooremfg
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:18 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Ignition coil still getting too hot,,,



Have had problems with my 1970 Elan S4, SE not starting after being
warm. Will start right up first try when cold.
After a trip in May, the car would not start, ( NO SPARK or
weak spark). Then it flooded 1st and 2nd cylinder, when it did finally
start, ( we compressioned started by rolling down a hill) it was firing
on #3 and #4 only till the head got hot enough to fire #1 and #2.
Any how, I replaced everything, thought I might have a ground
problem in my old ,original Lucas 25 D distributor.
Now I have a Brand new, JAE pertonix loaded Lucas 25d Replica
distributor, New Lucas Gold sport coil, New Silicone wires, Cars starts
and runs great, but the coil is almost to hot to touch after a good 4
mile run.
I am stumped, will be ready to take it in to an Auto Electric
shop next week for diagnosis,, any ideas?? Could it be my alternator
pushing out too much current to the coil? My New smiths volt meter
shows 11 volts at start , and about 12.5-13 volts at running speed.
Could I have a ground problem at my distributor ? ( My engine block is
oily. )Any help would be great.. Or maybe the coil being so hot is
normal?? I dont want it to boil apart.
daves56
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 150
Joined: 13 Oct 2003

PostPost by: "65 Lotus" » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:36 am

Remove the coil from the circuit and check its resistance. The Pertronix setup requires a minimum 3 ohm coil with a 12 V setup and 4-cylinders.

The hotter coils are actually low resistance coils and run about 1.5 ohms. Running one of these with the Pertronix module will "damage the module" according to Pertronix Instruction Sheet. Not sure what the lucas sport coil is.

If you have a 3 ohm coil and running 13VDC, you've got 13^2/3 = 56 watts, which is good.

If you have a 1.5 ohm coil, you've got 13^2/1.5 = 113 watts and probably found your problem.

Scott in Ohio

----- Original Message -----
From: mooremfg
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:17 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Ignition coil still getting too hot,,,


Have had problems with my 1970 Elan S4, SE not starting after being
warm. Will start right up first try when cold.
After a trip in May, the car would not start, ( NO SPARK or
weak spark). Then it flooded 1st and 2nd cylinder, when it did finally
start, ( we compressioned started by rolling down a hill) it was firing
on #3 and #4 only till the head got hot enough to fire #1 and #2.
Any how, I replaced everything, thought I might have a ground
problem in my old ,original Lucas 25 D distributor.
Now I have a Brand new, JAE pertonix loaded Lucas 25d Replica
distributor, New Lucas Gold sport coil, New Silicone wires, Cars starts
and runs great, but the coil is almost to hot to touch after a good 4
mile run.
I am stumped, will be ready to take it in to an Auto Electric
shop next week for diagnosis,, any ideas?? Could it be my alternator
pushing out too much current to the coil? My New smiths volt meter
shows 11 volts at start , and about 12.5-13 volts at running speed.
Could I have a ground problem at my distributor ? ( My engine block is
oily. )Any help would be great.. Or maybe the coil being so hot is
normal?? I dont want it to boil apart.
"65 Lotus"
 

PostPost by: denicholls2 » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:17 pm

A Europa lister found out the expensive way that Pertronix wasn't
kidding about HE coils.

If your coil resistance is too low, you're lucky you haven't fried the
Pertronix. Attend to the problem immediately or you'll be buying a
replacement.

The more stable spark resulting from the Pertronix unit should eliminate
the need for the sport coil providing that your other ignition
components are in top shape. Note also that jumping wide plug gaps
increases the amount of energy required of the coil on each firing, as
do worn out plug wires.

Pertronix does make performance coils that are compatible with their
Ignitor unit if you feel the need. The HE and compatible units are both
labeled Flamethrower, so be careful to get the right one!

I believe that both Ignitor 1 and Ignitor 2 units are available for the
Twincams. I'm pretty sure that the Ignitor 2 can handle lower
resistance than the earlier units, but confirm with them. And just
because the Ignitor can handle the load doesn't mean the Lucas coil
can...

-- Doug Nicholls, 54/1822 Ma~ (happy Pertronix customer)
denicholls2
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PostPost by: fatboyoz » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:06 pm

Doug,
This catalogue page seems to indicate Ignitor I only for Elan, not
Ignitor II. http://www.pertronix.com/ptx2005_cat/ptx05_auto.pdf
Regards Colin.


--- In ***@***.***, "Nicholls, Doug" <[email protected]>
wrote:
A Europa lister found out the expensive way that Pertronix wasn't
kidding about HE coils.

If your coil resistance is too low, you're lucky you haven't fried
the

Pertronix. Attend to the problem immediately or you'll be buying a
replacement.

The more stable spark resulting from the Pertronix unit should
eliminate

the need for the sport coil providing that your other ignition
components are in top shape. Note also that jumping wide plug gaps
increases the amount of energy required of the coil on each firing,
as

do worn out plug wires.

Pertronix does make performance coils that are compatible with their
Ignitor unit if you feel the need. The HE and compatible units are
both

labeled Flamethrower, so be careful to get the right one!

I believe that both Ignitor 1 and Ignitor 2 units are available for
the

Twincams. I'm pretty sure that the Ignitor 2 can handle lower
resistance than the earlier units, but confirm with them. And just
because the Ignitor can handle the load doesn't mean the Lucas coil
can...

-- Doug Nicholls, 54/1822 Ma~ (happy Pertronix
customer)













'68 S4 DHC
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