Lotus Elan

my new anti -theft device

PostPost by: "Jeff at tiscali&quo » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:08 pm

I have had my Elan for ten years now, and I have lost count of how many
starter solenoids I have fitted on the car.
Really great as an anti-theft device, but useless at starting the car.
Does anyone know of a better solenoid that the Lucas et al devices that
we cuurently use?
I have note that the gear reduction starters from the US are pre-engaged
so dont need the seperate solenoid? Are they worth the investment?
Regards
Jeff 72 +2
"Jeff at tiscali&quo
 

PostPost by: TYPE45 at aol.com » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:23 pm

In a message dated 6/15/06 03:10:08 PM, ***@***.***
writes:

<< I have note that the gear reduction starters from the US are pre-engaged

so dont need the seperate solenoid? Are they worth the investment? >>

Yes

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
TYPE45 at aol.com
 

PostPost by: lotuselan2 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:41 pm

Hey, get the gear drive starter and the old solenoid makes a nice junction
box!



Ken

'69 Lotus Elan +2 with BDR

_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:55 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] my new anti -theft device



I have had my Elan for ten years now, and I have lost count of how many
starter solenoids I have fitted on the car.
Really great as an anti-theft device, but useless at starting the car.
Does anyone know of a better solenoid that the Lucas et al devices that
we cuurently use?
I have note that the gear reduction starters from the US are pre-engaged
so dont need the seperate solenoid? Are they worth the investment?
Regards
Jeff 72 +2
'69 Lotus Elan +2 with Cosworth BDR
'84 Ferrari 400i
'94 Subaru SVX
'04 Audi allroad
lotuselan2
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Posts: 377
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Location: Shamong, NJ

PostPost by: lotuselan2 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:47 pm

YES!



Ken

'69 Lotus Elan +2 with BDR

_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 5:23 PM
To: ***@***.***; ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] my new anti -theft device




In a message dated 6/15/06 03:10:08 PM, jeff.taylor-
<mailto:jeff.taylor-jackson%40tiscali.co.uk> ***@***.***
writes:

<< I have note that the gear reduction starters from the US are pre-engaged

so dont need the seperate solenoid? Are they worth the investment? >>

Yes

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
'69 Lotus Elan +2 with Cosworth BDR
'84 Ferrari 400i
'94 Subaru SVX
'04 Audi allroad
lotuselan2
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 377
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Location: Shamong, NJ

PostPost by: Rod McIntyre » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:02 am

I have a stupid question.
If the starter is pre-engaged, what is engaged with what?
I cannot imagine that the drive gear is constantly engaged with the
flywheel teeth.
That would mean some wicked rpms at an engine speed of 6500rpm.
I must be missing something here.
Cheers
Rod McIntyre
On 15Jun 2006, at 4:54 PM, ***@***.***e:
I have note that the gear reduction starters from the US are pre-
engaged
so dont need the seperate solenoid? Are they worth the investment?
Regards
Jeff 72 +2



Rod McIntyre
 

PostPost by: dlbarnes1 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:39 am

Also, keep in mind that if you have a coil and ballast resistor setup you will need to continuing using the old solenoid (or something equivalent) to connect 12V to the coil while the starter is cranking.
Maybe the greater starting ability of the gear reduction starter would make the 12V connection to the coil unnecessary or the coil and resistor could be replaced with a 12V coil. In that case, as Ken mentions, the old solenoid simply becomes a place to connect the cables and the start wire from the ignition (or starter switch) goes directly to the solenoid on the starter motor.
Dave 72 Sprint DHC

----- Original Message -----
From: Lotus
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:28 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] my new anti -theft device


Hey, get the gear drive starter and the old solenoid makes a nice junction
box!

Ken

'69 Lotus Elan +2 with BDR

_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:55 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] my new anti -theft device

I have had my Elan for ten years now, and I have lost count of how many
starter solenoids I have fitted on the car.
Really great as an anti-theft device, but useless at starting the car.
Does anyone know of a better solenoid that the Lucas et al devices that
we cuurently use?
I have note that the gear reduction starters from the US are pre-engaged
so dont need the seperate solenoid? Are they worth the investment?
Regards
Jeff 72 +2
dlbarnes1
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 140
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Redding, Calif. USA

PostPost by: dlbarnes1 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:06 am

I think pre- engaged means that a solenoid actuated mechanism engages the pinion prior to energizing the starter motor. When the starter switch is released, the pinion dis-engages as the starter motor is de-energized.
Dave 72 Sprint DHC

----- Original Message -----
From: Rod McIntyre
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] my new anti -theft device


I have a stupid question.
If the starter is pre-engaged, what is engaged with what?
I cannot imagine that the drive gear is constantly engaged with the
flywheel teeth.
That would mean some wicked rpms at an engine speed of 6500rpm.
I must be missing something here.
Cheers
Rod McIntyre
On 15Jun 2006, at 4:54 PM, ***@***.***e:
>
> I have note that the gear reduction starters from the US are pre-
> engaged
> so dont need the seperate solenoid? Are they worth the investment?
> Regards
> Jeff 72 +2
>
>
>
dlbarnes1
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 140
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Redding, Calif. USA

PostPost by: "C.D.S." » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:59 am

Keep the solenoid/relay on the firewall.
The firewall mounted solenoid/relay is also a good place to have the
voltage sensing wire of an alternator
conversion to go to also.
I used to go through starters every 6 months on a toyota van that I
have until my brother turned me onto
using a ford starter solenoid/Relay before the solenoid mounted on
the actual starter,
I have not had to deal with another replacement in the past 7 years ;-)

regards

carl




On Jun 15, 18 Heisei, at 10:43 PM, David Barnes wrote:

I think pre- engaged means that a solenoid actuated mechanism
engages the pinion prior to energizing the starter motor. When the
starter switch is released, the pinion dis-engages as the starter
motor is de-energized.
Dave 72 Sprint DHC

----- Original Message -----
From: Rod McIntyre
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] my new anti -theft device

I have a stupid question.
If the starter is pre-engaged, what is engaged with what?
I cannot imagine that the drive gear is constantly engaged with the
flywheel teeth.
That would mean some wicked rpms at an engine speed of 6500rpm.
I must be missing something here.
Cheers
Rod McIntyre
On 15Jun 2006, at 4:54 PM, ***@***.***e:
>
> I have note that the gear reduction starters from the US are pre-
> engaged
> so dont need the seperate solenoid? Are they worth the investment?
> Regards
> Jeff 72 +2
>
>
>







"C.D.S."
 

PostPost by: Elanman99 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:49 am

Subject: [LotusElan.net] my new anti -theft device

I have had my Elan for ten years now, and I have lost count
of how many starter solenoids I have fitted on the car.
Regards
Jeff 72 +2


Jeff

I am curious to know why you have such a high usage of starter solenoids.
Last year I fitted my first replacement solenoid to my car since I bought it
1968, 200,000 miles ago. The original outlived 3 starter motors.

However, next time I need to replace the starter motor I will certainly go
for a pre-engaged one.

Ian Phillips
User avatar
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PostPost by: types26/36 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:35 am

--- In ***@***.***, Rod McIntyre <[email protected]> wrote:
I have a stupid question. If the starter is pre-engaged, what is
engaged with what?

With a pre-engaged starter the actuating arm (that moves the bendix
gear into mesh with the ring gear) is in permanent contact with the
solinoid, when the solinoid pulls the bendix gear into mesh with the
ring gear, ONLY THEN is the torque of the starter applied to the ring
gear via the bendix gear.This means the bendix is not crashing into
the ring gear with torque.
Brian.
64Elan/72Sprint/Birkin T.C.Seven
Brian
64 S2 Roadster
72 Sprint FHC
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PostPost by: M100 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:04 pm

On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:49:35 +0100, "Ian Phillips" wrote:

I am curious to know why you have such a high usage of starter solenoids.
Last year I fitted my first replacement solenoid to my car since I bought it
1968, 200,000 miles ago. The original outlived 3 starter motors.

I believe the quality control (stop laughing at the back) disappeared
on these and other items such as dynamo control boxes a few years ago
when they moved the manufacturing overseas. I fitted a new genuine
Lucas one in the mid 80's purely as a cosmetic measure during a
rebuild, it's still working fine.

(goes away to check phase of moon and line up a goat for midnight
sacrifice)


--
Martin
72/45
Martin
72 Sprint DHC
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PostPost by: TYPE45 at aol.com » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:27 pm

In a message dated 6/16/06 12:39:13 AM, ***@***.***es:

<< Also, keep in mind that if you have a coil and ballast resistor setup you
will need to continuing using the old solenoid (or something equivalent) to
connect 12V to the coil while the starter is cranking. >>

Dave,

The Gustafson gear reduction starter that I installed came with an additional
electrical connection on it to run 12v to the coil while cranking.

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
TYPE45 at aol.com
 

PostPost by: "Jeff at tiscali&quo » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:58 pm

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies on this, I suppose I ought to get the Gustafson
starter, where do I get one in the UK?
Jeff.

***@***.***e:

In a message dated 6/16/06 12:39:13 AM, ***@***.***
<mailto:dande%40saber.net> writes:

<< Also, keep in mind that if you have a coil and ballast resistor
setup you
will need to continuing using the old solenoid (or something
equivalent) to
connect 12V to the coil while the starter is cranking. >>

Dave,

The Gustafson gear reduction starter that I installed came with an
additional
electrical connection on it to run 12v to the coil while cranking.

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
"Jeff at tiscali&quo
 

PostPost by: "Timothy R Dafforn&q » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:34 am

Not sure whether it is related, but replaced the old solenoid on +2 with
new shiny example (one of the wires on the old one was loose).

Then the tacho goes crazy for a week

Then the tacho fills with smoke, the loom under the carburettors melts
and I get stuck at the station in the rain.

(Leave well alone sounds like a good motto)

tim



________________________________

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Brian Goodison
Sent: 16 June 2006 12:35
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] my new anti -theft device



--- In ***@***.*** <mailto:lotuselan%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Rod McIntyre <[email protected]> wrote:
I have a stupid question. If the starter is pre-engaged, what is
engaged with what?

With a pre-engaged starter the actuating arm (that moves the bendix
gear into mesh with the ring gear) is in permanent contact with the
solinoid, when the solinoid pulls the bendix gear into mesh with the
ring gear, ONLY THEN is the torque of the starter applied to the ring
gear via the bendix gear.This means the bendix is not crashing into
the ring gear with torque.
Brian.
64Elan/72Sprint/Birkin T.C.Seven
"Timothy R Dafforn&q
 

PostPost by: TYPE45 at aol.com » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:34 pm

Tim,

The exact same thing happened to my Europa this month. You have a direct
short to ground through your ignition wire that runs from the key through the
tach to the ballast resistor. That wire is touching ground somewhere. The good
news is that Lucas chose white for the ignition wire so you can go to any
hardware store and pick up replacement wire.

Frank Howard
'71 Elan S4 SE
'71 Europa Special
Minnesota
TYPE45 at aol.com
 

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