Lotus Elan

what cars did elans race against back in the day?

PostPost by: pinsx3 » Fri May 19, 2006 12:16 am

My group is trying to place the elans (stockers, not 26rs) in with the
big V8 cars. Does anyone have any data on how they grouped FIA G3
cars back in the day -- I thought they would group them by
displacement. Pete
pinsx3
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PostPost by: Rod McIntyre » Fri May 19, 2006 1:47 am

Hello,
If I recall correctly the Elan was placed with small block V8s,
Corvettes and Mustangs.
I think it was SCCA class C.
Cheers
Rod McIntyre
On 18May 2006, at 8:15 PM, pinsx3 wrote:

My group is trying to place the elans (stockers, not 26rs) in with the
big V8 cars. Does anyone have any data on how they grouped FIA G3
cars back in the day -- I thought they would group them by
displacement. Pete










Rod McIntyre
 

PostPost by: Howie97630 » Fri May 19, 2006 2:26 am

Elans were in C production. But I believe small block vettes and
Mustangs were both B production. Classes were weight and displacement
derived, with I think a performance potential, not just engine size.
Mini Cooper S, some Porsche, and a few other under 2000cc's were in C
as well. Triumphs were D I believe. 427 Cobras and the big vettes were
I believe A.

Been driving all day, brain fried, good wine with dinner, but that's
what comes off the top of my head. Have some old slides from Riverside,
but the race I have with the Elan was I believe for more than one
class, maybe C and D.


Doug Troutman
65 S2
formerly Chavaga region SCCA SOLO champ, C production, 1968. My 67 S3.
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PostPost by: mikecauser » Fri May 19, 2006 7:46 am

On Fri, 19 May 2006 00:15:01 -0000 "pinsx3" <***@***.***> wrote:

My group is trying to place the elans (stockers, not 26rs) in with the
big V8 cars. Does anyone have any data on how they grouped FIA G3
cars back in the day -- I thought they would group them by
displacement. Pete

FIA groupings were always by displacement (and production quantity,
which is why Elans would be Group 3 not 1 or 2). I can probably find an
RAC handbook for the early 1970s which might give some answers, or
I've got an FIA yearbook for abut 74 or 75 somewhere, but probably well
buried.


Mike
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PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Fri May 19, 2006 1:04 pm

Pete,

In FIA GT racing, ie: endurance racing, the competitors were Alfa GTZ and 904 Porsche, both 1600cc cars. But, the Elan didn't hold up well for the long haul. IIRC, one finished a 1000K Nurburgring race but I don't think any Elan ever figured in the results at LeMans, Sebring or the other endurance races of the mid-60s.

In SCCA racing, I believe it was usually in CP. I can remember the same Alfa and 904's running against Elans back then as well as normal Guilia Alfas, and early 911 Porsches, maybe Healey 3000 and the XK Jags. I have a 1964 Mid-Ohio program which lists common cars in classes. I'll dig it out and scan or copy it for you. You may also find the same information in the vintage and historic SCCA manuals available from SCCA national office and some issues of "Sports Car Graphic" or SCCA's "Sports Car" mag.

As the Elan matured into the 70's, TR6 and then Datsun Z cars became the competition. Seems like the Elan may have also been in DP for a year or two, maybe at the beginning and sometime in the 80s. Then it was moved to GT3 where it won its final SCCA national championship. Then to further penalize the ancient design, it was moved to GT2 and allowed further mods, that have overpowered the original car and rendered it an also ran.

In the early 90s, SVRA classed 26Rs into Gr6 with V8 Corvettes and TransAm cars. Dave Vegher and Dirk Layer made a lot of big block guys cry when they'd just run away and hide. This only lasted for a few years and now they run in Gr8 with Tigers, Healeys, Jags, Z cars and 911s. I believe MGBs TR4-6 are in there too. Jack W can help you better there as I don't compete in those classes (yet).

Roger

>> ***@***.*** 5/18/2006 8:15 PM >>>
My group is trying to place the elans (stockers, not 26rs) in with the

big V8 cars. Does anyone have any data on how they grouped FIA G3
cars back in the day -- I thought they would group them by
displacement. Pete











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PostPost by: "Benjamin Levy" » Fri May 19, 2006 2:58 pm

On 5/18/06, pinsx3 <***@***.***> wrote:
My group is trying to place the elans (stockers, not 26rs) in with the
big V8 cars. Does anyone have any data on how they grouped FIA G3
cars back in the day -- I thought they would group them by
displacement. Pete

When I used to auto-cross in my Elan it was placed in A Stock. My
guess is that Elans kept doing too well in the lower classes, so they
got pushed up into the classes with the much bigger engines.

Looking at the current auto-cross rules (solo-II), the Elan is now
in B Stock, or A Street Prepared.
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2006/stockc.html
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2006/stprepc.html
---Ben
"Benjamin Levy"
 

PostPost by: Bill Barry » Fri May 19, 2006 6:32 pm

From 1974 SCCA General Competition Rules:
"2.3 In 1974 Production Category automobiles shall be divided into

classes based on relative performance as follows:

CLASS A Cobra 427
Abarth Simca 2000 Corvette Sting Ray Roadster
& Coupe 350, 1970, 1971
AMX 390 Corvette Sting Ray Roadster
&Coupe 396, 427, 454
DeTomaso Pantera 351, 1972-74 Ford Mustang Boss
429
Griffith 200 Porsche GTS/904

CLASS B
Alfa Romeo Montreal AMX Sports Coupe 290 thru
1969
AMX Sports Coupe 343 thru 1969 Cobra 289
Corvette 283, 327 (1962) Corvette Sting Ray
Roadster 327,350, 1963 thru 1974
Ferrari 365 GTB 4 Daytona Jaguar Series 3 (V-12)
Porsche 911 E Coupe/Targa,Cabriolet, 1969 Porsche 911S
Coupe/Targa,Cabriolet, 1969
Porsche 91 IE Coupe/Targa,Cabriolet, 1970-71 Porsche 911S
Coupe/Targa,Cabriolet, 1970-71
Shelby GT 350 thru 966 Shelby G8 350 1-4V, 1967
Shelby Cobra GT 350 Coupe, 1969

CLASS C
Alfa Romeo TZ Datsun SRL
311U (Mikuni)
Datsun 240Z Sports (Hitachi & Mikuni) thru 1974 Ferrari Dino 246 GT
Jaguar E 3.8 & 4.2 Lotus Elan
thru S-4 (Roadster,Coupe & Drophead)
Lotus Europa Twin Cam Lotus Elan Plus Two
Lotus Seven Series Four MGC, MGC GT
Porsche Carrera 1500, 1600 Porsche 911, 911S,
911L,(Coupes) thru 1968
Porsche 91 IT, Coupe/Targa, Cabriolet, 1969 Porsche 911T,
Coupe/Targa,Cabriolet, 1970, 1971
Porsche 91 IT, E, S Coupe/Targa,Cabriolet, 1972 Porsche 914/6 thru
1972
Sunbeam Tiger 260 Triumph
T-250
Triumph TR-5 Triumph TR-6

CLASS D
Alfa Romeo Duetto 11750 thru 1971 Alfa Romeo 2000
Spider
Austin Healey 3000 Daimler SP-250
Datsun SRL 311U (Hitachi) Elva Mk III 1800 &
Mk IV 1800
Elva Mk IV T 1800 Jaguar XK 120, 140, 150
Jensen Healey Lotus Super Seven
Lotus Europa Mk 46, 54 (65) Porsche 914S
Triumph GT-6 & GT-6 Plus Triumph GT-6 Mark
III ( 2 carb.)thru 1972
Triumph GT-6 Mark III (1973-74Swing Axle) Triumph TR-4
Triumph TR-4A IRS TVR Mk III 1800
Yenko Stinger

CLASS E
Alfa Romeo Duetto 1600 Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider
Veloce1600
Alfa Romeo Giulia GT & GTZ Austin Healey 100-6
Elva Mark I, II, III, 1622 Elva Mark IV 1622
Fiat 124 Sport Spider 1600 (2 carb.) MGB
MGB GT Morgan -f-4
Opel GT 1900 Porsche 912 Coupe/Targa,
Cabrioletthru 1968
Porsche 912 Coupe/Targa, Cabriolet1969 Porsche 914/4 thru 1973
Porsche 356C/1600SC & 356BSuper 90 Porsche 356 1500/1600 A, B,
C
Saab Sonnet V-4 thru III Triumph TR-2, 3, 3A,
3B
Turner 1500 TVR Mk III 1622
TVR Vixen 1600 Ford Volvo 1800 (1990 cc) 1969,
1800E, 1800ES thru 1973

CLASS F
Alfa Romeo Guilietta Super 1300 Alfa Romeo Sprint
Speciale
Alfa Romeo Guilia Sprint & Super 1600 Alfa Romeo Spider 1300
Junior
Alfa Romeo Junior Z Alpine A100 1100
Austin Healey 100-4, 100M Austin Healey Sprite
1275
Datsun SPL 311 & SPL 311U Fiat 124 Sport
Spider thru 1970,1600-1971-74 (onecarb)
Fiat Abarth OT 1300/124 Coupe Lotus 7 & 7 America
MGA 1500, 1600, 1622 MGA Twin Cam
MG Midget 1275 thru 1973 Morgan 4/4 Mk V
Sunbeam Alpine Triumph Spitfire Mk III thru 1970
Triumph Spitfire Mk IV thru 1972 Triumph
Spitfire 1500
Volvo P 1800 S (1780 cc)

CLASS G
Alfa Romeo Sprint & Spider 1300 Austin Healey Sprite
1100, AN' 8 (1100)
Datsun SPL 310U Matra
MG Midget AN2, AN3 Porsche 1300
Rene Bonnet CRB Triumph Spitfire Mk I & II
Turner 950S

CLASS H
Austin Healey Sprite 948 Mk I & II
Fiat 850 Spider, Racer thru 1973
Fiat Abarth 850S, 750 GT, 750MM
MG Midget 948
Morgan 4/4 Mk IV
Opel GT 1100 thru 1971"

Lotus carsshown in bold if you have Rich Text format. The Elan shared Class
C Production with the Plus 2, Europa Twin Cam, and Seven Series Four as well
as Porsche 911, Jaguar E-type, Sunbeam Tiger. A tough class!

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of pinsx3
Sent: 19 May 2006 01:15
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] what cars did elans race against back in the
day?


My group is trying to place the elans (stockers, not 26rs) in with the
big V8 cars. Does anyone have any data on how they grouped FIA G3
cars back in the day -- I thought they would group them by
displacement. Pete
Bill Barry
 

PostPost by: Ross Robbins » Fri May 19, 2006 7:57 pm

Pete wrote:
My group is trying to place the elans (stockers, not 26rs) in with
the big V8 cars.>


Pete:

You don't say what race group you are writing about, so on the
assumption that it is a vintage group, let me share what I have
learned after 13 years racing an Elan prepared to 1967 SCCA GCR
standards; in other words NOT an FIA 26R or 26r clone, but a
prepared Elan of the period. I have been grouped with almost every
imaginable combination of cars from FIA sports racers at SOVERN to
Sprites and Mini's at VIR. The best group seems to be with cars no
bigger than Porsches, both 911 and 356, Alfas, and B sedans. Most
vintage organizations struggle with getting even sized run groups
and breaking the group somewhere around C production, depending on
the number of A and B cars (both production and sedan)they have
active. VSCDA and SVRA have their group 8 that recognizes this.

A reasonably well driven Elan can run with the V8 cars on a tight
track, primarily due to its "squirtability" and brakes. As the
courses get longer, top speed and horsepower come into play and the
V8's run away. However, just because the lap times are similar does
not mean they should run together. We finally got that settled in
our group, Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, a few years ago based on a
safety rationale. The big cars weigh twice what we do, and
especially with sedans (Camaro, Mustang, AMC, etc) cannnot see us as
they turn in whie we deep brake inside them...our specific
competitive advantage. This is very dangerous, especially
considering our side impact strength...none. My car is completely
below their beltline except for my seat top, head and rollbar...not
very much to see out the rear corner of a mirror. After I was run
into the dirt by a 427 Corvette I had been trying to get by for
several laps who claimed he never saw me, despite a qualifying time
almost 2 seconds faster, I went to the steward and withdrew from the
meet. That was enough to get dialogue started about where Elans and
Europas should be grouped. We found that a natural break occurs with
a weight ceiling of CP cars at about 2,000-2,200 pounds or so. That
takes in the Porsches, who can see us, but breaks out the big V8
cars into another run group.

I find that racing is far less stressful and still very competitive,
with lots of fast 911's to race.

I hope this helps. If you or your organization wish to discuss this
further, email me directly; ***@***.***

Ross Robbins
1966 Elan S2
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