Lotus Elan

HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?

PostPost by: Will Grainger » Sun May 14, 2006 9:54 pm

Before I remove my motor, could anyone please help identify the
source of this horrendous noise coming from the region of my
transmission/bellhousing. Here is an 8 second mp3 audio file:

http://members.shaw.ca/mmg3/Elan_noise.mp3

The noise occurs only when the clutch is slipping, as I lift my foot
off the clutch pedal. It happens when I pull away from a standstill.
As soon as my foot is off the clutch it disappears. It makes this
noise at no other time. The motor and clutch only have about 100
miles on them, as they were recently installed as part of my complete
restoration. New pilot bearing (not the needle bearing type). New
release bearing. New everything. This noise just suddenly began this
weekend. No problems during the first 100 miles or so.

Could it be a fried pilot bearing? I had a hard time mating the motor
and tranny upon installation and it may have gotten damaged. Could it
be antifreeze on the clutch as a result of changing the heater valve
a few days ago? (a little coolant spilled but not much). Can't think
of anything else.

I'd hate to remove the motor/tranny unnecessarily, so if the sound is
familiar to anyone please let me know if you could.

Thanks.

-Will Grainger
45/9693
Will Grainger
 

PostPost by: Guest » Sun May 14, 2006 10:37 pm

Will

Sorry to say this, but I think it is the release mechanism, maybe not
the release bearing. You can look into the clutch area through the hole
where the operating lever enters the bell-housing, you might be able to
see something wrong. If the face of the fingers on the pressure plate
are shiney then it could be the bearing is frozen.

I hope I am wrong but it sounds like the engine might have to be pulled.

Rod

Rodney Stevens
CSIRO Minerals
phone 02 9710 6701
Mobile 0432 506 427
Web: http://www.minerals.csiro.au/

Personal Web Page
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/rodjohnst ... mepage.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Will Grainger
Sent: Monday, 15 May 2006 7:50 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?

Before I remove my motor, could anyone please help identify the
source of this horrendous noise coming from the region of my
transmission/bellhousing. Here is an 8 second mp3 audio file:

http://members.shaw.ca/mmg3/Elan_noise.mp3

The noise occurs only when the clutch is slipping, as I lift my foot
off the clutch pedal. It happens when I pull away from a standstill.
As soon as my foot is off the clutch it disappears. It makes this
noise at no other time. The motor and clutch only have about 100
miles on them, as they were recently installed as part of my complete
restoration. New pilot bearing (not the needle bearing type). New
release bearing. New everything. This noise just suddenly began this
weekend. No problems during the first 100 miles or so.

Could it be a fried pilot bearing? I had a hard time mating the motor
and tranny upon installation and it may have gotten damaged. Could it
be antifreeze on the clutch as a result of changing the heater valve
a few days ago? (a little coolant spilled but not much). Can't think
of anything else.

I'd hate to remove the motor/tranny unnecessarily, so if the sound is
familiar to anyone please let me know if you could.

Thanks.

-Will Grainger
45/9693
Guest
 

PostPost by: tvacc » Sun May 14, 2006 10:43 pm

I have to second the release bearing.but not rule out the pilot if I don't
see anything wrong with the release.



I believe I have had that noise before.but I cannot be really sure.



Tony Vaccaro



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 6:35 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?



Will

Sorry to say this, but I think it is the release mechanism, maybe not
the release bearing. You can look into the clutch area through the hole
where the operating lever enters the bell-housing, you might be able to
see something wrong. If the face of the fingers on the pressure plate
are shiney then it could be the bearing is frozen.

I hope I am wrong but it sounds like the engine might have to be pulled.

Rod

Rodney Stevens
CSIRO Minerals
phone 02 9710 6701
Mobile 0432 506 427
Web: http://www.minerals.csiro.au/

Personal Web Page
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/rodjohnst ... mepage.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Will Grainger
Sent: Monday, 15 May 2006 7:50 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?

Before I remove my motor, could anyone please help identify the
source of this horrendous noise coming from the region of my
transmission/bellhousing. Here is an 8 second mp3 audio file:

http://members.shaw.ca/mmg3/Elan_noise.mp3

The noise occurs only when the clutch is slipping, as I lift my foot
off the clutch pedal. It happens when I pull away from a standstill.
As soon as my foot is off the clutch it disappears. It makes this
noise at no other time. The motor and clutch only have about 100
miles on them, as they were recently installed as part of my complete
restoration. New pilot bearing (not the needle bearing type). New
release bearing. New everything. This noise just suddenly began this
weekend. No problems during the first 100 miles or so.

Could it be a fried pilot bearing? I had a hard time mating the motor
and tranny upon installation and it may have gotten damaged. Could it
be antifreeze on the clutch as a result of changing the heater valve
a few days ago? (a little coolant spilled but not much). Can't think
of anything else.

I'd hate to remove the motor/tranny unnecessarily, so if the sound is
familiar to anyone please let me know if you could.

Thanks.

-Will Grainger
45/9693
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: Will Grainger » Tue May 16, 2006 1:15 pm

Thanks Rod and Tony for your feedback. I peered through the clutch
fork hole. Everything looks OK. No signs of wear, the little clips
are still connected properly to the bearing. The release mechanism
slides back and forth properly. I 'm betting it's the pilot bearing.
Anyway, I guess I have some labour ahead of me.

Regards,

Will
45/9693
Will Grainger
 

PostPost by: Tim Moore » Wed May 17, 2006 6:27 pm

I have had the same loud noise, not very often, buy sometimes.. All I do is pump the clutch pedal, seems to happen to my Elan while clutch is not fully engaged, or in neutral. I bleed the slave cylinder (air bubbles) in the spring and it goes away.. I am not going to worry about it till it becomes really bad..

Will Grainger <***@***.***> wrote: Before I remove my motor, could anyone please help identify the
source of this horrendous noise coming from the region of my
transmission/bellhousing. Here is an 8 second mp3 audio file:

http://members.shaw.ca/mmg3/Elan_noise.mp3

The noise occurs only when the clutch is slipping, as I lift my foot
off the clutch pedal. It happens when I pull away from a standstill.
As soon as my foot is off the clutch it disappears. It makes this
noise at no other time. The motor and clutch only have about 100
miles on them, as they were recently installed as part of my complete
restoration. New pilot bearing (not the needle bearing type). New
release bearing. New everything. This noise just suddenly began this
weekend. No problems during the first 100 miles or so.

Could it be a fried pilot bearing? I had a hard time mating the motor
and tranny upon installation and it may have gotten damaged. Could it
be antifreeze on the clutch as a result of changing the heater valve
a few days ago? (a little coolant spilled but not much). Can't think
of anything else.

I'd hate to remove the motor/tranny unnecessarily, so if the sound is
familiar to anyone please let me know if you could.

Thanks.

-Will Grainger
45/9693
Tim Moore
 

PostPost by: Will Grainger » Fri May 19, 2006 2:03 pm

Tim, Thanks for the idea. I gave it a try but the problem persists.
It's getting really loud. Sounds like when a bearing was shot on my
washing mashine. I pulled the rad and carbs off last night in
preparation to pull the motor.

Regards,

Will
45/9693

From: "Tim Moore" ***@***.***
Date: Wed May 17, 2006 11:27am(PDT)
Subject: Re: HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?

I have had the same loud noise, not very often, buy sometimes.. All
I do is pump the clutch pedal, seems to happen to my Elan while
clutch is not fully engaged, or in neutral. I bleed the slave
cylinder (air bubbles) in the spring and it goes away.. I am not
going to worry about it till it becomes really bad..

Will Grainger <***@***.***> wrote: Before I remove my motor,
could anyone please help identify the
source of this horrendous noise coming from the region of my
transmission/bellhousing. Here is an 8 second mp3 audio file:

http://members.shaw.ca/mmg3/Elan_noise.mp3

The noise occurs only when the clutch is slipping, as I lift my foot
off the clutch pedal. It happens when I pull away from a standstill.
As soon as my foot is off the clutch it disappears. It makes this
noise at no other time. The motor and clutch only have about 100
miles on them, as they were recently installed as part of my complete
restoration. New pilot bearing (not the needle bearing type). New
release bearing. New everything. This noise just suddenly began this
weekend. No problems during the first 100 miles or so.

Could it be a fried pilot bearing? I had a hard time mating the motor
and tranny upon installation and it may have gotten damaged. Could it
be antifreeze on the clutch as a result of changing the heater valve
a few days ago? (a little coolant spilled but not much). Can't think
of anything else.

I'd hate to remove the motor/tranny unnecessarily, so if the sound is
familiar to anyone please let me know if you could.

Thanks.

-Will Grainger
45/9693
Will Grainger
 

PostPost by: elancoupe » Fri May 19, 2006 11:32 pm

My car did this exact same thing some years back--- a brand new
pilot bushing malfunctioned, for whatever reason. A new bushing
fixed the problem.

BTW, the transmission can be removed without the engine, this
particular instance was the first time I did it that way. I have
done so twice, with just a floor jack for assistance.


Mike B

66 FHC RHD


In ***@***.***, Will Grainger <[email protected]> wrote:
Tim, Thanks for the idea. I gave it a try but the problem
persists.

It's getting really loud. Sounds like when a bearing was shot on
my

washing mashine. I pulled the rad and carbs off last night in
preparation to pull the motor.

Regards,

Will
45/9693

>From: "Tim Moore" [email protected]
>Date: Wed May 17, 2006 11:27am(PDT)
>Subject: Re: HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?
>
>I have had the same loud noise, not very often, buy sometimes..
All

>I do is pump the clutch pedal, seems to happen to my Elan while
>clutch is not fully engaged, or in neutral. I bleed the slave
>cylinder (air bubbles) in the spring and it goes away.. I am not
>going to worry about it till it becomes really bad..
>
>Will Grainger <[email protected]> wrote: Before I remove my motor,
>could anyone please help identify the
>source of this horrendous noise coming from the region of my
>transmission/bellhousing. Here is an 8 second mp3 audio file:
>
>http://members.shaw.ca/mmg3/Elan_noise.mp3
>
>The noise occurs only when the clutch is slipping, as I lift my
foot

>off the clutch pedal. It happens when I pull away from a
standstill.

>As soon as my foot is off the clutch it disappears. It makes this
>noise at no other time. The motor and clutch only have about 100
>miles on them, as they were recently installed as part of my
complete

>restoration. New pilot bearing (not the needle bearing type). New
>release bearing. New everything. This noise just suddenly began
this

>weekend. No problems during the first 100 miles or so.
>
>Could it be a fried pilot bearing? I had a hard time mating the
motor

>and tranny upon installation and it may have gotten damaged.
Could it

>be antifreeze on the clutch as a result of changing the heater
valve

>a few days ago? (a little coolant spilled but not much). Can't
think

>of anything else.
>
>I'd hate to remove the motor/tranny unnecessarily, so if the
sound is

>familiar to anyone please let me know if you could.
>
>Thanks.
>
>-Will Grainger
>45/9693
Mike
elancoupe
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 977
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Location: Spam-on-Rye

PostPost by: triumphelan » Sat May 20, 2006 6:33 am

Hi Mike
Are you saying that you rermoved the gearbox[transmission] whilst the engine was still in place??
Regards John 1969 S4 dhc
----- Original Message -----
From: elancoupe
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 12:32 AM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?


My car did this exact same thing some years back--- a brand new
pilot bushing malfunctioned, for whatever reason. A new bushing
fixed the problem.

BTW, the transmission can be removed without the engine, this
particular instance was the first time I did it that way. I have
done so twice, with just a floor jack for assistance.


Mike B

66 FHC RHD


In ***@***.***, Will Grainger <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Tim, Thanks for the idea. I gave it a try but the problem
persists.
> It's getting really loud. Sounds like when a bearing was shot on
my
> washing mashine. I pulled the rad and carbs off last night in
> preparation to pull the motor.
>
> Regards,
>
> Will
> 45/9693
>
> >From: "Tim Moore" [email protected]
> >Date: Wed May 17, 2006 11:27am(PDT)
> >Subject: Re: HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?
> >
> >I have had the same loud noise, not very often, buy sometimes..
All
> >I do is pump the clutch pedal, seems to happen to my Elan while
> >clutch is not fully engaged, or in neutral. I bleed the slave
> >cylinder (air bubbles) in the spring and it goes away.. I am not
> >going to worry about it till it becomes really bad..
> >
> >Will Grainger <[email protected]> wrote: Before I remove my motor,
> >could anyone please help identify the
> >source of this horrendous noise coming from the region of my
> >transmission/bellhousing. Here is an 8 second mp3 audio file:
> >
> >http://members.shaw.ca/mmg3/Elan_noise.mp3
> >
> >The noise occurs only when the clutch is slipping, as I lift my
foot
> >off the clutch pedal. It happens when I pull away from a
standstill.
> >As soon as my foot is off the clutch it disappears. It makes this
> >noise at no other time. The motor and clutch only have about 100
> >miles on them, as they were recently installed as part of my
complete
> >restoration. New pilot bearing (not the needle bearing type). New
> >release bearing. New everything. This noise just suddenly began
this
> >weekend. No problems during the first 100 miles or so.
> >
> >Could it be a fried pilot bearing? I had a hard time mating the
motor
> >and tranny upon installation and it may have gotten damaged.
Could it
> >be antifreeze on the clutch as a result of changing the heater
valve
> >a few days ago? (a little coolant spilled but not much). Can't
think
> >of anything else.
> >
> >I'd hate to remove the motor/tranny unnecessarily, so if the
sound is
> >familiar to anyone please let me know if you could.
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >-Will Grainger
> >45/9693
>













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PostPost by: elancoupe » Sat May 20, 2006 11:33 am

--- In ***@***.***, "John Harrison" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Hi Mike
Are you saying that you rermoved the gearbox[transmission] whilst
the engine was still in place??



Yes. It can be done.

I am certainly not the pioneer, some SCCA racers in the US were doing
it long before me. One of them was kind enough to give me the
procedure.

It has been about 10 years since the last time, but I could probably
still give a reasonable recap if someone needed.

Mike B
66 FHC RHD
Mike
elancoupe
Fourth Gear
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PostPost by: TYPE45 at aol.com » Sat May 20, 2006 2:05 pm

Mike,

Did your friend go by the name Houdini by chance?

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
TYPE45 at aol.com
 

PostPost by: tvacc » Sat May 20, 2006 2:27 pm

I second the Houdini...I did not think it was possible without modifying the
car.

I had heard of people doing it.but thought it was an urban legend.



Tony Vaccaro

www.lotusowners.com <http://www.lotusowners.com/>









_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 10:04 AM
To: ***@***.***; ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?



Mike,

Did your friend go by the name Houdini by chance?

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota









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Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: tvacc » Sat May 20, 2006 2:36 pm

I had a bad propshaft at one time.and I took it out so many times that I
eventually was able to remove it with out disturbing the diff.and could get
it out in under 15 min.



I NEVER thought that was possible either.



Tony Vaccaro

www.lotusowners.com



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Tony Vaccaro
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 10:24 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?



I second the Houdini...I did not think it was possible without modifying the
car.

I had heard of people doing it.but thought it was an urban legend.



Tony Vaccaro

www.lotusowners.com <http://www.lotusowners.com/>









_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ***@***.***
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 10:04 AM
To: ***@***.***; ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: HELP! - Awful Clutch noise?



Mike,

Did your friend go by the name Houdini by chance?

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota









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http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: elancoupe » Sat May 20, 2006 5:38 pm

--- In ***@***.***, ***@***.***e:
Mike,

Did your friend go by the name Houdini by chance?


LOL, it wasn't Houdini.

If I had not actually done it myself, I would be inclined to not
believe it either...... but after having struggled the engine/trans
combo in and out more than few times on my and some other friends'
cars, it is certainly a viable alternative for me.

I would not call it an easy job, but I have done it twice with only
a floor jack for assistance.


With the car safely raised up on stands....
Once the exhaust, shifter, starter, tailshaft crossmember and clutch
slave are removed and the trans fluid is drained, unbolt the
driveshaft and slide it back out of the trans rearward out of the
way. Unbolt the bellhousing, and slide/rotate the whole transmission
as far back in the tunnel as possible---- this is a bit tricky,
there is one certain "way" of rotation to achieve the most rearward
position.. Removal of the starter bung may be necessary. Once the
input shaft is clear of the clutch assembly, reach in thru the bell
and take out the 4 bolts holding the bell to the trans. This where
the jack comes in, once the last bolt is out of the trans, the bell
and trans, now disconnected, will "fold" and fall/come out. Be
careful- have help or a jack to lower the parts out.

In the famous words of the Lotus manual, "reassembly is the reverse
of the above steps", lol, except for using pipe sealant on the one
trans bolt.

Btw, this was done on a standard Lotus chassis, not a Spyder.

Maybe I am Houdini, but for transmission or clutch work this sure
beats the whole engine removal thing.


Mike B
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