Smoke slowing & going

PostPost by: frearther » Wed May 24, 2006 10:30 pm

It's the arm that acts as a lever to move the throwout bearing. The
rod from the slave cylinder presses on the arm, causing it to move
the throwout bearing on the clutch plate.

Art


At 05:31 PM 5/24/2006, you wrote:

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PostPost by: paul_adamson » Wed May 24, 2006 10:33 pm

Yet, it shouldn't be extended "as far as it will reach", maybe it has a
cracked and bent?


-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Arther H. Frederick
Sent: 24 May 2006 23:30
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going


It's the arm that acts as a lever to move the throwout bearing. The
rod from the slave cylinder presses on the arm, causing it to move
the throwout bearing on the clutch plate.

Art


At 05:31 PM 5/24/2006, you wrote:

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PostPost by: Guest » Wed May 24, 2006 10:41 pm

Dan

If the rod is adjusted to its limit then there is a fair chance that
there is something amiss with the clutch or the arm that it is pushing
on is bent. With a goog clutch there should be a lot of adjustment not
none.

Rod

Ps: and to all those who didn't remove the previous responses when they
replied. Tut, tut tut. We do have an archive if you need to track any
threads.

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phone 02 9710 6701
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Web: http://www.minerals.csiro.au/

Personal Web Page
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-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of collins_dan2000
Sent: Thursday, 25 May 2006 7:31 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going

huh? Is that the rod that extends from the slave cylinder to push
the clutch in & out? If that's it, its currently extended as far as
it will reach. Dan

snip, snip, snip.
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PostPost by: Rob_LaMoreaux » Thu May 25, 2006 2:24 am


What gear lube did you use?

Not letting you into gear says that the drag of the blocker ring on the gear
is not enough to bring the gear to the speed of the other output quick
enough. This can be because the input shaft is still being turned by the
clutch, or the lube may be too slippery when the brass blocker ring gets
dragged across the steel cone of the gear.

Usually on the upshift the drag on the rings does not need to be much since
the input shaft is slowing while the output shaft is continuing to turn by
the driveshaft. In some cases it is possible the blocker rings are getting
hung up on the synchro and thus not letting you into gear, but this seems
rare to me.

It is possible that the bloccker rings grooves are worn out and thus they
aren't providing enough drag, but this usually effects the downshift more
than the upshift, unless you heel toe automatically.

I tried a couple of Redline synthetic tranny lubes in my box and it did not
like either. I put regular gear lube in and it is much better. I rebuilt my
mustang's tranny a while back partly in order to try to understand how
synchros worked, but it wasn't until I read the Elan shop manual that it all
clicked.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
Cell (734)-604-9280
Email: ***@***.***
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PostPost by: Billmack » Thu May 25, 2006 3:44 am

That sounds like a dragging clutch from a defective pressure assembly or a
bent disc.They can be bent while assembling the engine to the trans.Also the bad
pressure assemblies are not so uncommon.Stay away from cheap rebuilts.The
cost of labor on most of this stuff far exceeds the parts even if you pay premium
money for the best stuff.
Bill Mack
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PostPost by: triumphelan » Thu May 25, 2006 6:34 am

I have had a problem getting into 1st & reverse I have bleed the clutch twice .I have just checked the slave to clutch arm rod and with the spring on it seemed good but with the spring off it was way out I now have the correct cap and the clutch is perfect
Regards John 1969 S4 dhc
----- Original Message -----
From: collins_dan2000
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:31 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going


huh? Is that the rod that extends from the slave cylinder to push
the clutch in & out? If that's it, its currently extended as far as
it will reach. Dan


--- In ***@***.***, "Arther H. Frederick"
<initialreaction@...> wrote:
>
> Also check the actuating arm adjustment.
>
> Art
>
>
>
> At 03:54 PM 5/24/2006, you wrote:
> >I just replaced both the master and the slave cylinder and the
> >challenges getting into gear didn't change. I can always check the
> >seals and bleeds the lines again to be sure. As you say, much
> >cheaper solution. Dan
> >
> >
> >--- In ***@***.***, "Roger Sieling" <rogsie@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd tend to agree w/ Tony. Please check that the clutch is
fully
> > > disengaging before rebuilding the box. Nothing would be wrong
w/
> >having
> > > a rebuilt box, but if rebuilding the clutch hydraulics would
cure
> >the
> > > symptoms, then why not take the easy way out. Besides, if you
> >rebuild
> > > the gearbox and our suspicions are right, you'll still need to
fix
> >the
> > > clutch problem before your shifting problems are solved.
> > >
> > > Roger
> > >
> > > >>> collins_dan@ 5/24/2006 3:32 PM >>>
> > > I get a little bit of a crunch on occasion when downshifting,
but
> > > mostly just very tight trying to get into 1st and 2nd. No
grinding
> > > just balking. Dan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In ***@***.***, "Tony Vaccaro" <tvacc@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Syncro? I don't think that the symptom would be "tight" that
> > > sounds like a
> > > > misadjusted clutch. If the syncro is bad.would not be able
to
> >get
> > > in during
> > > > a downshift.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hours..it should cost you about $1000 plus parts to do the
job.
> > > >
> > > > At least that is the going rate around here.Buffalo, NY for a
> >non
> > > Lotus
> > > > shop.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tony Vaccaro
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: ***@***.***
> >[mailto:***@***.***
> > > On Behalf
> > > > Of collins_dan2000
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:39 PM
> > > > To: ***@***.***
> > > > Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, I am not as savvy with an engine as you guys,
I'm
> > > > going to need to pay someone to pull the engine and replace
the
> > > > rings, and while I'm at it, I will have the synchro's
replaced
> >as
> > > it
> > > > is tight getting into gear. How many hours should I
anticipate
> >for
> > > > such a job? The head should be in pretty good shape as the
> >guides
> > > > were replaced just before I bought it in Oct '04. Thanks. Dan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In ***@***.***, "Tony Vaccaro" <tvacc@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > In my opinion.you are just forestalling what will need to
be
> > > done.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I think your rings are bad...and perhaps some valve
problems
> >on
> > > 4.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Since you have to remove the head anyways to do the
valves.may
> > > as
> > > > well pull
> > > > > the whole motor and rebuild it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tony Vaccaro
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: ***@***.***
> > > [mailto:***@***.***
> > > > On Behalf
> > > > > Of collins_dan2000
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:38 PM
> > > > > To: ***@***.***
> > > > > Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I tried squirting some oil into #4 and compression went up
to
> > > 120
> > > > > from 90. When I tried the same for the other 3, compression
> >also
> > > > > went up 30 pts from 120 to 150. So it seems like the rings
are
> > > bad
> > > > > on all 4, not just #4. I could still try soaking #4 in
> > > penetrating
> > > > > oil, as it couldn't hurt, but is there something I could
try
> > > that
> > > > > might clean up the valves for #4. I'm just thinking that
with
> > > all
> > > > > the oil the car is going through, maybe #4's valves are the
> > > > culprit.
> > > > > Thoughts? Dan '70 S4 SE
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In ***@***.***, "collins_dan2000"
> > > > > <collins_dan@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90
for
> >4.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > was my first time using this compression tester and its
one
> >of
> > > > > those
> > > > > > ones with a universal rubber fit instead of screw in,
but we
> > > did
> > > > > it a
> > > > > > number of times and always came up the same. Thoughts? I
> >also
> > > > > noticed
> > > > > > that I have gone through about 1/2 quart of oil in the
past
> >75
> > > > > miles.
> > > > > > I checked the brake fluid level and its unchanged. I'm
not
> > > > feeling
> > > > > > very good about this. Thanks. Dan
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In ***@***.***, "collins_dan2000"
> > > > <collins_dan@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My '70 S4 SE doesn't smoke at all at start-up, but does
> > > smoke
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > stopping quickly or downhill, or taking off after said
> >stop.
> > > > The
> > > > > > valve
> > > > > > > guides were supposedly replaced, but not the rings. The
> >car
> > > > > seems to
> > > > > > > go through equal portions of oil and gas (1 quart to 1
> > > tank).
> > > > I
> > > > > > > checked the plugs last night and they look great, no
black
> > > > soot,
> > > > > > > although the engine smells rich. The water level is
> >constant
> > > > and
> > > > > > > clean. I'll do the compression test and leakdown test
this
> > > > > weekend,
> > > > > > > but in reading the archives on this subject, it seems
like
> > > the
> > > > > value
> > > > > > > guide job might have been botched and the rings need
to be
> > > > > replaced.
> > > > > > > The car runs great, so I'm inclined to just keep adding
> >oil.
> > > > Is
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > something I'm missing? What's involved to get the rings
> > > > > replaced? Is
> > > > > > > it a huge and expensive undertaking? Thanks. Dan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> 518-392-4287
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>
>
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PostPost by: Frank Howard » Thu May 25, 2006 12:32 pm

Dan,

I have to agree with Skip. In 1975, I installed a rebuilt clutch, a rebuilt
pressure plate, and a new release bearing in my Sunbeam Alpine and it did the
same thing as your car does. Upon the advice of an experienced mechanic, I
took it apart again and showed him the parts. He said that there was something
wrong with the fingers on the pressure plate. For the life of me, I could not
see what he was talking about, but I got another pressure plate, installed
it, and the problem went away.

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
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