Lotus Elan

Smoke slowing & going

PostPost by: collins_dan » Thu May 04, 2006 4:48 pm

My '70 S4 SE doesn't smoke at all at start-up, but does smoke when
stopping quickly or downhill, or taking off after said stop. The valve
guides were supposedly replaced, but not the rings. The car seems to
go through equal portions of oil and gas (1 quart to 1 tank). I
checked the plugs last night and they look great, no black soot,
although the engine smells rich. The water level is constant and
clean. I'll do the compression test and leakdown test this weekend,
but in reading the archives on this subject, it seems like the value
guide job might have been botched and the rings need to be replaced.
The car runs great, so I'm inclined to just keep adding oil. Is there
something I'm missing? What's involved to get the rings replaced? Is
it a huge and expensive undertaking? Thanks. Dan
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PostPost by: "Brian Goodison" » Thu May 04, 2006 10:18 pm

--- In ***@***.***, "collins_dan2000" <[email protected]>
wrote:
My '70 S4 SE doesn't smoke at all at start-up, but does smoke when
stopping quickly or downhill, or taking off after said stop.

Before tearing down the engine just make sure it is not brake fluid
being sucked into the engine via a leak in the brake servo (if fitted)
Brian
64Elan/72Sprint/Birkin TC Seven
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PostPost by: collins_dan » Sun May 07, 2006 9:31 pm

Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4. This
was my first time using this compression tester and its one of those
ones with a universal rubber fit instead of screw in, but we did it a
number of times and always came up the same. Thoughts? I also noticed
that I have gone through about 1/2 quart of oil in the past 75 miles.
I checked the brake fluid level and its unchanged. I'm not feeling
very good about this. Thanks. Dan


--- In ***@***.***, "collins_dan2000" <[email protected]>
wrote:
My '70 S4 SE doesn't smoke at all at start-up, but does smoke when
stopping quickly or downhill, or taking off after said stop. The
valve

guides were supposedly replaced, but not the rings. The car seems to
go through equal portions of oil and gas (1 quart to 1 tank). I
checked the plugs last night and they look great, no black soot,
although the engine smells rich. The water level is constant and
clean. I'll do the compression test and leakdown test this weekend,
but in reading the archives on this subject, it seems like the value
guide job might have been botched and the rings need to be replaced.
The car runs great, so I'm inclined to just keep adding oil. Is
there

something I'm missing? What's involved to get the rings replaced? Is
it a huge and expensive undertaking? Thanks. Dan
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PostPost by: theelanman » Sun May 07, 2006 11:21 pm

I had similar.....
mine turned out to be a groove in cyl 4.....something got in there we reckon
but what no idea....always had the filters on...no bits of valves
missing....no guides deformed or missing...the head is perfect......no gudgeon pins
missing.......pistons and seals fine!!!
it now need relining....!!!
doh...
I hope yours is better!!!!
cheers
G
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PostPost by: "Benjamin Levy" » Mon May 08, 2006 4:21 am

On 5/7/06, collins_dan2000 <***@***.***> wrote:
Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4.

I've never tried doing it, but I've read that you can test for bad
rings by putting a tablespoon or two of oil in the low cylinder and
then do another compression test. If it's unchanged, it's probably
not the rings.
----Ben
"Benjamin Levy"
 

PostPost by: hantsjo » Mon May 08, 2006 9:00 am

Hi Dan, I've never tried the oil trick that Ben suggested either, but I
thought it was a teaspoon of oil rather than a tablespoon... otherwise you
can do a leakdown test (never done that either) this will tell you weather
it's the valves, rings/bore or gasket but if you search the archives I'm
sure you can find the procedure.
Good luck,

Jo
65 S2

----- Original Message -----

I've never tried doing it, but I've read that you can test for bad
rings by putting a tablespoon or two of oil in the low cylinder and
then do another compression test. If it's unchanged, it's probably
not the rings.
----Ben
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PostPost by: steveww » Mon May 08, 2006 10:11 am

You really need to do a leak down test to be sure of where the pressure
is going. However you need a leak down tester and compressor. It is not
too much work to pull the head off and have a look, then you will know
for sure.

collins_dan2000 wrote:
Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4. This
was my first time using this compression tester and its one of those
ones with a universal rubber fit instead of screw in, but we did it a
number of times and always came up the same. Thoughts? I also noticed
that I have gone through about 1/2 quart of oil in the past 75 miles.
I checked the brake fluid level and its unchanged. I'm not feeling
very good about this. Thanks. Dan


--- In ***@***.***, "collins_dan2000" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> My '70 S4 SE doesn't smoke at all at start-up, but does smoke when
> stopping quickly or downhill, or taking off after said stop. The
valve
> guides were supposedly replaced, but not the rings. The car seems to
> go through equal portions of oil and gas (1 quart to 1 tank). I
> checked the plugs last night and they look great, no black soot,
> although the engine smells rich. The water level is constant and
> clean. I'll do the compression test and leakdown test this weekend,
> but in reading the archives on this subject, it seems like the value
> guide job might have been botched and the rings need to be replaced.
> The car runs great, so I'm inclined to just keep adding oil. Is
there
> something I'm missing? What's involved to get the rings replaced? Is
> it a huge and expensive undertaking? Thanks. Dan
>











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PostPost by: kayenney » Mon May 08, 2006 1:49 pm

You can also do a leak down test and hear if it's a bad valve, even which one. The equipment is not expensive if you already have a compressor, a small one will do.

Ken, '69 +2
NW Florida

Benjamin Levy <***@***.***> wrote:
On 5/7/06, collins_dan2000 <***@***.***> wrote:
Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4.

I've never tried doing it, but I've read that you can test for bad
rings by putting a tablespoon or two of oil in the low cylinder and
then do another compression test. If it's unchanged, it's probably
not the rings.
----Ben








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PostPost by: tvacc » Mon May 08, 2006 2:10 pm

Yes,,,,that works. Done it many times.



Tony



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Benjamin Levy
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 12:21 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going



On 5/7/06, collins_dan2000 <***@***.***> wrote:
Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4.

I've never tried doing it, but I've read that you can test for bad
rings by putting a tablespoon or two of oil in the low cylinder and
then do another compression test. If it's unchanged, it's probably
not the rings.
----Ben









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PostPost by: steveww » Mon May 08, 2006 3:22 pm

This is the one I use:

http://www.ccw-tools.co.uk/catalogue/pr ... &cat_id=85

As has already been said you will also need a compressor.

Ken Evans wrote:
You can also do a leak down test and hear if it's a bad valve, even which one. The equipment is not expensive if you already have a compressor, a small one will do.

Ken, '69 +2
NW Florida

Benjamin Levy <***@***.***> wrote:
On 5/7/06, collins_dan2000 <***@***.***> wrote:
> Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4.

I've never tried doing it, but I've read that you can test for bad
rings by putting a tablespoon or two of oil in the low cylinder and
then do another compression test. If it's unchanged, it's probably
not the rings.
----Ben








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PostPost by: Bill Barry » Mon May 08, 2006 5:46 pm

Low compression and high oil consumption. Sounds like piston rings to me.

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of collins_dan2000
Sent: 07 May 2006 22:31
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going


Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4. This
was my first time using this compression tester and its one of those
ones with a universal rubber fit instead of screw in, but we did it a
number of times and always came up the same. Thoughts? I also noticed
that I have gone through about 1/2 quart of oil in the past 75 miles.
I checked the brake fluid level and its unchanged. I'm not feeling
very good about this. Thanks. Dan


--- In ***@***.***, "collins_dan2000" <[email protected]>
wrote:
My '70 S4 SE doesn't smoke at all at start-up, but does smoke when
stopping quickly or downhill, or taking off after said stop. The
valve

guides were supposedly replaced, but not the rings. The car seems to
go through equal portions of oil and gas (1 quart to 1 tank). I
checked the plugs last night and they look great, no black soot,
although the engine smells rich. The water level is constant and
clean. I'll do the compression test and leakdown test this weekend,
but in reading the archives on this subject, it seems like the value
guide job might have been botched and the rings need to be replaced.
The car runs great, so I'm inclined to just keep adding oil. Is
there

something I'm missing? What's involved to get the rings replaced? Is
it a huge and expensive undertaking? Thanks. Dan

Bill Barry
 

PostPost by: collins_dan » Mon May 08, 2006 6:13 pm

I'll try putting some oil in and re-doing the compression test on
#4. Someone offline suggested that one of the rings might be hung up
on the piston and that spraying wd40 penetrating oil might free it
up. It did just sit around for the good part of 4 months. Thoughts?
Dan


--- In ***@***.***, Bill Barry <[email protected]> wrote:
Low compression and high oil consumption. Sounds like piston rings
to me.


-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
On

Behalf Of collins_dan2000
Sent: 07 May 2006 22:31
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going


Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4.
This

was my first time using this compression tester and its one of
those

ones with a universal rubber fit instead of screw in, but we did
it a

number of times and always came up the same. Thoughts? I also
noticed

that I have gone through about 1/2 quart of oil in the past 75
miles.

I checked the brake fluid level and its unchanged. I'm not feeling
very good about this. Thanks. Dan


--- In ***@***.***, "collins_dan2000" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> My '70 S4 SE doesn't smoke at all at start-up, but does smoke
when

> stopping quickly or downhill, or taking off after said stop. The
valve
> guides were supposedly replaced, but not the rings. The car
seems to

> go through equal portions of oil and gas (1 quart to 1 tank). I
> checked the plugs last night and they look great, no black soot,
> although the engine smells rich. The water level is constant and
> clean. I'll do the compression test and leakdown test this
weekend,

> but in reading the archives on this subject, it seems like the
value

> guide job might have been botched and the rings need to be
replaced.

> The car runs great, so I'm inclined to just keep adding oil. Is
there
> something I'm missing? What's involved to get the rings
replaced? Is

> it a huge and expensive undertaking? Thanks. Dan
>











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PostPost by: tvacc » Tue May 09, 2006 12:06 am

Four months would not be long enough unless the car sat outside..in a damp
climate.



Do the test with the oil.that will tell the tale. It might be valve
guides.or both guides and rings..



Tony



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of collins_dan2000
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 2:12 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going



I'll try putting some oil in and re-doing the compression test on
#4. Someone offline suggested that one of the rings might be hung up
on the piston and that spraying wd40 penetrating oil might free it
up. It did just sit around for the good part of 4 months. Thoughts?
Dan


--- In ***@***.***, Bill Barry <[email protected]> wrote:
Low compression and high oil consumption. Sounds like piston rings
to me.


-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
On

Behalf Of collins_dan2000
Sent: 07 May 2006 22:31
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going


Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4.
This

was my first time using this compression tester and its one of
those

ones with a universal rubber fit instead of screw in, but we did
it a

number of times and always came up the same. Thoughts? I also
noticed

that I have gone through about 1/2 quart of oil in the past 75
miles.

I checked the brake fluid level and its unchanged. I'm not feeling
very good about this. Thanks. Dan


--- In ***@***.***, "collins_dan2000" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> My '70 S4 SE doesn't smoke at all at start-up, but does smoke
when

> stopping quickly or downhill, or taking off after said stop. The
valve
> guides were supposedly replaced, but not the rings. The car
seems to

> go through equal portions of oil and gas (1 quart to 1 tank). I
> checked the plugs last night and they look great, no black soot,
> although the engine smells rich. The water level is constant and
> clean. I'll do the compression test and leakdown test this
weekend,

> but in reading the archives on this subject, it seems like the
value

> guide job might have been botched and the rings need to be
replaced.

> The car runs great, so I'm inclined to just keep adding oil. Is
there
> something I'm missing? What's involved to get the rings
replaced? Is

> it a huge and expensive undertaking? Thanks. Dan
>











Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: Guest » Tue May 09, 2006 12:20 am

Ben

I think you have it the wrong way round if it's changed then it is the rings.

The oil sits on top of the rings giving a better seal therefore increasing the compression test reading.

If it doesn't change then it is probably a valve problem.

Rodney Stevens
CSIRO Minerals
phone 02 9710 6701
Mobile 0432 506 427
Web: http://www.minerals.csiro.au/

Personal Web Page
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/rodjohnst ... mepage.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf Of Benjamin Levy
Sent: Monday, 8 May 2006 2:21 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going

On 5/7/06, collins_dan2000 <***@***.***> wrote:
Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4.

I've never tried doing it, but I've read that you can test for bad
rings by putting a tablespoon or two of oil in the low cylinder and
then do another compression test. If it's unchanged, it's probably
not the rings.
----Ben
Guest
 

PostPost by: marcfuller » Tue May 09, 2006 12:25 am

Rod,

Take the time to re-read Ben's post. You just restated what he wrote,
(albeit with a double negative).

-Marc

At 06:19 PM 5/8/2006, you wrote:
Ben

I think you have it the wrong way round if it's changed then it is the rings.

The oil sits on top of the rings giving a better seal therefore increasing
the compression test reading.

If it doesn't change then it is probably a valve problem.

Rodney Stevens
CSIRO Minerals
phone 02 9710 6701
Mobile 0432 506 427
Web: http://www.minerals.csiro.au/

Personal Web Page
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/rodjohnst ... mepage.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Benjamin Levy
Sent: Monday, 8 May 2006 2:21 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Smoke slowing & going

On 5/7/06, collins_dan2000 <***@***.***> wrote:
> Results of the compression test are in: 120 for 1-3, 90 for 4.

I've never tried doing it, but I've read that you can test for bad
rings by putting a tablespoon or two of oil in the low cylinder and
then do another compression test. If it's unchanged, it's probably
not the rings.
----Ben
-Marc '66 Elan DHC (36/6025)
http://www.lotuselan.us
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