Lotus Elan

WATER PUMP WOES

PostPost by: "ianclarets2003" » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:48 pm

HI , I HAVE JUST TAKEN MY S4 ELAN OUT OF WINTER HIBERNATION TO FIND
THAT THE WATER PUMP HAS NOT SURVIVED,. I DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE
ENGINE, SO MY PROBLEM AFTER READING HOURS OF LITERATURE IS DO I REMOVE
THE HEAD PLUS DROP THE SUMP AS PER MILES WILKINS, OR FOLLOW WORKSHOP
MANUAL AND JUST DROP THE SUMP. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MUCH WELCOME AS THIS
IS MY FIRT MAJOR PROB. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE IAN
"ianclarets2003"
 

PostPost by: tvacc » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:00 pm

Yes..it can be done without removing the head.but you often get leaks.or
your break something getting the front cover out..



Pull the head, it is .much easier...



Tony Vaccaro



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ianclarets2003
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 2:47 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WATER PUMP WOES



HI , I HAVE JUST TAKEN MY S4 ELAN OUT OF WINTER HIBERNATION TO FIND
THAT THE WATER PUMP HAS NOT SURVIVED,. I DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE
ENGINE, SO MY PROBLEM AFTER READING HOURS OF LITERATURE IS DO I REMOVE
THE HEAD PLUS DROP THE SUMP AS PER MILES WILKINS, OR FOLLOW WORKSHOP
MANUAL AND JUST DROP THE SUMP. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MUCH WELCOME AS THIS
IS MY FIRT MAJOR PROB. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE IAN













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LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: s2lola » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:00 pm

Not to hijack Ian's email, but on the topic. Be aware that the DB water
pump conversion (the cartridge) will now require you to manufacture a spacer
for the crank pulley. This is because the new aluminum front cover puts the
pump pulley about 200 thou out further from the block where it was orignally
- you have to shim out the crank pulley by a like amount. There used to be
an alternative pulley that was available, but no more. Unfortunately, when
you shell out the big bucks for the parts, nobody tells you that there are
additional steps required. Ask me how I know.

Cheers,
Bill Tebbutt

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ianclarets2003
Sent: 2006/04/18 14:47
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WATER PUMP WOES


HI , I HAVE JUST TAKEN MY S4 ELAN OUT OF WINTER HIBERNATION TO FIND
THAT THE WATER PUMP HAS NOT SURVIVED,. I DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE
ENGINE, SO MY PROBLEM AFTER READING HOURS OF LITERATURE IS DO I REMOVE
THE HEAD PLUS DROP THE SUMP AS PER MILES WILKINS, OR FOLLOW WORKSHOP
MANUAL AND JUST DROP THE SUMP. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MUCH WELCOME AS THIS
IS MY FIRT MAJOR PROB. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE IAN
s2lola
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Posts: 260
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPost by: steveww » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:23 pm

Having recently changed a water pump, I say pull the head. It is not
difficult to do and a safer way to do a proper job. However it can get
expensive.... Well while the head is off I may as well have ???? done.....

Tony Vaccaro wrote:
Yes..it can be done without removing the head.but you often get leaks.or
your break something getting the front cover out..



Pull the head, it is .much easier...



Tony Vaccaro



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of ianclarets2003
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 2:47 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WATER PUMP WOES



HI , I HAVE JUST TAKEN MY S4 ELAN OUT OF WINTER HIBERNATION TO FIND
THAT THE WATER PUMP HAS NOT SURVIVED,. I DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE
ENGINE, SO MY PROBLEM AFTER READING HOURS OF LITERATURE IS DO I REMOVE
THE HEAD PLUS DROP THE SUMP AS PER MILES WILKINS, OR FOLLOW WORKSHOP
MANUAL AND JUST DROP THE SUMP. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MUCH WELCOME AS THIS
IS MY FIRT MAJOR PROB. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE IAN













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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan> " on the web.

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PostPost by: Hamish Coutts » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:47 pm

Guys,

Having had to do the waterpump not long after I got my +2 I would say take the engine out and do it properly. It was my first major job on the car and I just pulled the head and the sump - and what a kafuffle that was with the sump! I put it all back together and had endless problems with oil leaks particularly between the head and the front cover. It's not easy pulling up cork gaskets in two different directions without damaging them. Oil drip city!

I have since rebuilt the engine and the oil leaks are cured. What a doddle it was putting the front cover/head and sump back on with the engine on the bench. I recon it would be quicker to do it this way, in the end. You'll have fewer problems. Especially if you have never done the job before.

Another Lotus challenge!!

Regards,

Hamish.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Waterworth" <***@***.***>
To: <***@***.***>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] WATER PUMP WOES


Having recently changed a water pump, I say pull the head. It is not
difficult to do and a safer way to do a proper job. However it can get
expensive.... Well while the head is off I may as well have ???? done.....

Tony Vaccaro wrote:
> Yes..it can be done without removing the head.but you often get leaks.or
> your break something getting the front cover out..
>
>
>
> Pull the head, it is .much easier...
>
>
>
> Tony Vaccaro
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
> Of ianclarets2003
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 2:47 PM
> To: ***@***.***
> Subject: [LotusElan.net] WATER PUMP WOES
>
>
>
> HI , I HAVE JUST TAKEN MY S4 ELAN OUT OF WINTER HIBERNATION TO FIND
> THAT THE WATER PUMP HAS NOT SURVIVED,. I DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE
> ENGINE, SO MY PROBLEM AFTER READING HOURS OF LITERATURE IS DO I REMOVE
> THE HEAD PLUS DROP THE SUMP AS PER MILES WILKINS, OR FOLLOW WORKSHOP
> MANUAL AND JUST DROP THE SUMP. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MUCH WELCOME AS THIS
> IS MY FIRT MAJOR PROB. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE IAN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "lotuselan
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ***@***.***
> <mailto:***@***.***ect=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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PostPost by: marcfuller » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:55 pm

Just coming out of the water pump procedure on my S3. I too resisted
pulling the head and then the engine ---->

You can try it with just dropping the sump ... But if you have much
corrosion you will find that you will need to go ahead and remove the
head. The head and the chain rub strip will restrict the access and timing
cover plate movement you need have in order to safely "work" the cover off.

My S3 has a the 4-bolt engine, and I found that the sump cannot be fully
removed, even with a removable chassis brace so after much effort trying to
find a work around I went ahead a pulled the engine. (I doubted being able
to get all the old gasket off and not have chunks in the engine without
getting the sump fully removed.) Pulling the engine was not difficult or
particularly time consuming, but it seemed like the "tide" was going the
wrong way. On the plus side it is a great opportunity to clean and detail
the engine compartment. And it did lead to a number of other things that
were discovered as needing attention.

Speaking to the after-market timing covers with easily replaceable pump
inserts. While they address the difficulty of pump replacement, I am not
sure they answer the cause of pump failure. I believe that the
modifications implemented by Keith Franck to the original pump does resolve
the cause of pump failure and will save about $500.00 over the new cover
replacements.

At 12:47 PM 4/18/2006, you wrote:
HI , I HAVE JUST TAKEN MY S4 ELAN OUT OF WINTER HIBERNATION TO FIND
THAT THE WATER PUMP HAS NOT SURVIVED,. I DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE
ENGINE, SO MY PROBLEM AFTER READING HOURS OF LITERATURE IS DO I REMOVE
THE HEAD PLUS DROP THE SUMP AS PER MILES WILKINS, OR FOLLOW WORKSHOP
MANUAL AND JUST DROP THE SUMP. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MUCH WELCOME AS THIS
IS MY FIRT MAJOR PROB. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE IAN
-Marc '66 Elan DHC (36/6025)
http://www.lotuselan.us
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:31 pm

I removed the head but left the sump in place, for reasons mentioned by
Marc, need to be careful about sealing, but I don't have any oil leaks
after about 3-4 years. Fitted the capsule version from Burton Power, did
not fancy all that rigmarole again- pump will probably last for 30 years
now!
Do replace the timing chain.

Good luck,

Pete.


Marc Fuller wrote:

Just coming out of the water pump procedure on my S3. I too resisted
pulling the head and then the engine ---->

You can try it with just dropping the sump ... But if you have much
corrosion you will find that you will need to go ahead and remove the
head. The head and the chain rub strip will restrict the access and
timing
cover plate movement you need have in order to safely "work" the cover
off.

My S3 has a the 4-bolt engine, and I found that the sump cannot be fully
removed, even with a removable chassis brace so after much effort
trying to
find a work around I went ahead a pulled the engine. (I doubted being
able
to get all the old gasket off and not have chunks in the engine without
getting the sump fully removed.) Pulling the engine was not difficult or
particularly time consuming, but it seemed like the "tide" was going the
wrong way. On the plus side it is a great opportunity to clean and
detail
the engine compartment. And it did lead to a number of other things that
were discovered as needing attention.

Speaking to the after-market timing covers with easily replaceable pump
inserts. While they address the difficulty of pump replacement, I am not
sure they answer the cause of pump failure. I believe that the
modifications implemented by Keith Franck to the original pump does
resolve
the cause of pump failure and will save about $500.00 over the new cover
replacements.

At 12:47 PM 4/18/2006, you wrote:
>HI , I HAVE JUST TAKEN MY S4 ELAN OUT OF WINTER HIBERNATION TO FIND
>THAT THE WATER PUMP HAS NOT SURVIVED,. I DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE
>ENGINE, SO MY PROBLEM AFTER READING HOURS OF LITERATURE IS DO I REMOVE
>THE HEAD PLUS DROP THE SUMP AS PER MILES WILKINS, OR FOLLOW WORKSHOP
>MANUAL AND JUST DROP THE SUMP. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MUCH WELCOME AS THIS
>IS MY FIRT MAJOR PROB. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE IAN










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PostPost by: steveww » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:16 am

Forgot to mention that my S4 has a removable cross brace which makes
dropping the sump very easy. If your car does not have one of these
then engine out is the easiest option.

Hamish Coutts wrote:
Guys,

Having had to do the waterpump not long after I got my +2 I would say take the engine out and do it properly. It was my first major job on the car and I just pulled the head and the sump - and what a kafuffle that was with the sump! I put it all back together and had endless problems with oil leaks particularly between the head and the front cover. It's not easy pulling up cork gaskets in two different directions without damaging them. Oil drip city!

I have since rebuilt the engine and the oil leaks are cured. What a doddle it was putting the front cover/head and sump back on with the engine on the bench. I recon it would be quicker to do it this way, in the end. You'll have fewer problems. Especially if you have never done the job before.

Another Lotus challenge!!

Regards,

Hamish.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Waterworth" <***@***.***>
To: <***@***.***>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] WATER PUMP WOES


>Having recently changed a water pump, I say pull the head. It is not
>difficult to do and a safer way to do a proper job. However it can get
>expensive.... Well while the head is off I may as well have ???? done.....
>
>Tony Vaccaro wrote:
>>Yes..it can be done without removing the head.but you often get leaks.or
>>your break something getting the front cover out..
>>
>>
>>
>>Pull the head, it is .much easier...
>>
>>
>>
>>Tony Vaccaro
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
>>Of ianclarets2003
>>Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 2:47 PM
>>To: ***@***.***
>>Subject: [LotusElan.net] WATER PUMP WOES
>>
>>
>>
>>HI , I HAVE JUST TAKEN MY S4 ELAN OUT OF WINTER HIBERNATION TO FIND
>>THAT THE WATER PUMP HAS NOT SURVIVED,. I DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE
>>ENGINE, SO MY PROBLEM AFTER READING HOURS OF LITERATURE IS DO I REMOVE
>>THE HEAD PLUS DROP THE SUMP AS PER MILES WILKINS, OR FOLLOW WORKSHOP
>>MANUAL AND JUST DROP THE SUMP. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MUCH WELCOME AS THIS
>>IS MY FIRT MAJOR PROB. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE IAN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>>
>>
>>* Visit your group "lotuselan
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan> " on the web.
>>
>>* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> ***@***.***
>><mailto:***@***.***ect=Unsubscribe>
>>
>>* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
>><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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PostPost by: poiuyt » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:37 pm

I've had the Dave Bean cartridge water pump for the last 8000 miles
with no spacer and no problems. Everything needed came with the kit.

Steve B.



--- In ***@***.***, "Tebbutt, Bill" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Not to hijack Ian's email, but on the topic. Be aware that the DB
water

pump conversion (the cartridge) will now require you to
manufacture a spacer

for the crank pulley. This is because the new aluminum front
cover puts the

pump pulley about 200 thou out further from the block where it was
orignally

- you have to shim out the crank pulley by a like amount. There
used to be

an alternative pulley that was available, but no more.
Unfortunately, when

you shell out the big bucks for the parts, nobody tells you that
there are

additional steps required. Ask me how I know.

Cheers,
Bill Tebbutt

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
On Behalf

Of ianclarets2003
Sent: 2006/04/18 14:47
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WATER PUMP WOES


HI , I HAVE JUST TAKEN MY S4 ELAN OUT OF WINTER HIBERNATION TO
FIND

THAT THE WATER PUMP HAS NOT SURVIVED,. I DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE
ENGINE, SO MY PROBLEM AFTER READING HOURS OF LITERATURE IS DO I
REMOVE

THE HEAD PLUS DROP THE SUMP AS PER MILES WILKINS, OR FOLLOW
WORKSHOP

MANUAL AND JUST DROP THE SUMP. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MUCH WELCOME AS
THIS

IS MY FIRT MAJOR PROB. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE IAN










Steve B.<br>1969 Elan S4
poiuyt
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PostPost by: s2lola » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:20 pm

Well, you're 8000 miles ahead of me. I just bought the kit last month, and
am not thrilled with the extra work required.

BT



-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.*** <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.*** <***@***.***>
Sent: Wed Apr 19 15:33:47 2006
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] WATER PUMP WOES

I've had the Dave Bean cartridge water pump for the last 8000 miles
with no spacer and no problems. Everything needed came with the kit.

Steve B.



--- In ***@***.***, "Tebbutt, Bill" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Not to hijack Ian's email, but on the topic. Be aware that the DB
water

pump conversion (the cartridge) will now require you to
manufacture a spacer

for the crank pulley. This is because the new aluminum front
cover puts the

pump pulley about 200 thou out further from the block where it was
orignally

- you have to shim out the crank pulley by a like amount. There
used to be

an alternative pulley that was available, but no more.
Unfortunately, when

you shell out the big bucks for the parts, nobody tells you that
there are

additional steps required. Ask me how I know.

Cheers,
Bill Tebbutt

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
On Behalf

Of ianclarets2003
Sent: 2006/04/18 14:47
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] WATER PUMP WOES


HI , I HAVE JUST TAKEN MY S4 ELAN OUT OF WINTER HIBERNATION TO
FIND

THAT THE WATER PUMP HAS NOT SURVIVED,. I DONT WANT TO REMOVE THE
ENGINE, SO MY PROBLEM AFTER READING HOURS OF LITERATURE IS DO I
REMOVE

THE HEAD PLUS DROP THE SUMP AS PER MILES WILKINS, OR FOLLOW
WORKSHOP

MANUAL AND JUST DROP THE SUMP. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MUCH WELCOME AS
THIS

IS MY FIRT MAJOR PROB. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE IAN










s2lola
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Location: Toronto, Ontario

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