Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
17 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Just an FYI is anyone is thinking of buying a TT frame, make sure you
buy adjustable suspension to go with it. I just did a comprehensive
four wheel and frame alignment and corner balance. My 26R frame with
his wishbones had nearly an inch of rear toe in. No wonder it handled
like crap. To his credit, the front suspension was pretty good. I have
not measured my original car yet, but I wonder how much rear toe the
original lotus elan had. Catch this though: 1410 lbs with driver, oil,
water and 5 gallons of race fuel!
Pete
buy adjustable suspension to go with it. I just did a comprehensive
four wheel and frame alignment and corner balance. My 26R frame with
his wishbones had nearly an inch of rear toe in. No wonder it handled
like crap. To his credit, the front suspension was pretty good. I have
not measured my original car yet, but I wonder how much rear toe the
original lotus elan had. Catch this though: 1410 lbs with driver, oil,
water and 5 gallons of race fuel!
Pete
- pinsx3
- Second Gear
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 16 Sep 2003
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 10:54 AM
To: Peter Steilberg; ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
Actually, I'm more worried that w/o adjustment, a standard chassis might
have toe out at the rear.
buy adjustable suspension to go with it. I just did a comprehensive
four wheel and frame alignment and corner balance. My 26R frame with
his wishbones had nearly an inch of rear toe in. No wonder it handled
like crap. To his credit, the front suspension was pretty good. I have
not measured my original car yet, but I wonder how much rear toe the
original lotus elan had. Catch this though: 1410 lbs with driver, oil,
water and 5 gallons of race fuel!
Pete
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From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 10:54 AM
To: Peter Steilberg; ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
Actually, I'm more worried that w/o adjustment, a standard chassis might
have toe out at the rear.
buy adjustable suspension to go with it. I just did a comprehensive
four wheel and frame alignment and corner balance. My 26R frame with
his wishbones had nearly an inch of rear toe in. No wonder it handled
like crap. To his credit, the front suspension was pretty good. I have
not measured my original car yet, but I wonder how much rear toe the
original lotus elan had. Catch this though: 1410 lbs with driver, oil,
water and 5 gallons of race fuel!
Pete
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- pinsx3
- Second Gear
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Actually, I'm more worried that w/o adjustment, a standard chassis might
have toe out at the rear.
buy adjustable suspension to go with it. I just did a comprehensive
four wheel and frame alignment and corner balance. My 26R frame with
his wishbones had nearly an inch of rear toe in. No wonder it handled
like crap. To his credit, the front suspension was pretty good. I
have
not measured my original car yet, but I wonder how much rear toe the
original lotus elan had. Catch this though: 1410 lbs with driver,
oil,
water and 5 gallons of race fuel!
Pete
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Visit your group "lotuselan" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
***@***.***
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**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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have toe out at the rear.
buy adjustable suspension to go with it. I just did a comprehensive
four wheel and frame alignment and corner balance. My 26R frame with
his wishbones had nearly an inch of rear toe in. No wonder it handled
like crap. To his credit, the front suspension was pretty good. I
have
not measured my original car yet, but I wonder how much rear toe the
original lotus elan had. Catch this though: 1410 lbs with driver,
oil,
water and 5 gallons of race fuel!
Pete
SPONSORED LINKS
Plus Sprint Devoted Enjoy Impressions
Visit your group "lotuselan" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
***@***.***
.
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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- Elan45
- Coveted Fifth Gear
- Posts: 2518
- Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Hi Peter
Is this a new chassis you've bought from TTR or a second hand one? I am
about to buy one but have not heard of any problems from anyone else
Regards
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Steilberg" <***@***.***>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
Is this a new chassis you've bought from TTR or a second hand one? I am
about to buy one but have not heard of any problems from anyone else
Regards
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Steilberg" <***@***.***>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
Dave Hughes
S2 26R
Elan DHC Sprint
Shapecraft Honda powered S1(in progress)
Turbocharged 26R clone (also in progress)
Evora 400 development car ex Lotus Factory
S2 26R
Elan DHC Sprint
Shapecraft Honda powered S1(in progress)
Turbocharged 26R clone (also in progress)
Evora 400 development car ex Lotus Factory
-
bigvalvehead - Third Gear
- Posts: 441
- Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Hi,
Wasn't someone complaining on the list a few months ago about TT wishbones
being the incorrect size, and if I remember correctly Mr T refused to give
him his money back?
David
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Dave Hughes
Sent: 11 April 2006 19:34
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
Hi Peter
Is this a new chassis you've bought from TTR or a second hand one? I am
about to buy one but have not heard of any problems from anyone else
Regards
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Steilberg" <***@***.***>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
Wasn't someone complaining on the list a few months ago about TT wishbones
being the incorrect size, and if I remember correctly Mr T refused to give
him his money back?
David
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Dave Hughes
Sent: 11 April 2006 19:34
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
Hi Peter
Is this a new chassis you've bought from TTR or a second hand one? I am
about to buy one but have not heard of any problems from anyone else
Regards
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Steilberg" <***@***.***>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
- davidallen
- Third Gear
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 11 Aug 2005
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:59:58 +0100,"ALLEN, David" wrote:
Yes,
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12027
--
Martin
72/45
--
Yes,
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12027
--
Martin
72/45
--
Martin
72 Sprint DHC
72 Sprint DHC
-
M100 - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 761
- Joined: 16 Sep 2003
It would be very hard to make a chassis with excess rear toe-in as the
rear A-frame mounting points are Parallel and the dimesions are very
easy to check when making the plates that span the chassis bottom tray
and form the rear mounting points. The small amount of toe in is built
into the A frames and these should be always checked if you have
excessive amounts of toe in or toe out as they have probably been bent
or made wrong if new.
Rohan
rear A-frame mounting points are Parallel and the dimesions are very
easy to check when making the plates that span the chassis bottom tray
and form the rear mounting points. The small amount of toe in is built
into the A frames and these should be always checked if you have
excessive amounts of toe in or toe out as they have probably been bent
or made wrong if new.
Rohan
In God I trust.... All others please bring data
-
rgh0 - Coveted Fifth Gear
- Posts: 8829
- Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Yes, that was me complaining about the wishbones earlier. But hear me
out.
I brought up the issue again because it turned out that it was a
combination of the frame AND the wishbones. I agree with Rohan to that
it should be hard to screw up the frame mounts (although just having the
mounting holes off a smidge on the tabs is enough to do it on the
outboard end of a tire). It would also be hard to screw up the
wishbones as you (presumably) weld them on a jig. Also, I had been
informed that the wishbones had the toe "built in" rather than the
frame. In any case, there was waaaay too much toe in -- nearly an inch.
I did not figure it out until we did a full race string alignment
(finding the center of the car etc.) where the faults were.
Don't get me wrong the frame LOOKS great, appears well built, and it is
new at least in terms of use. The prior owner of the car did not drive
it much -- probably because it drove like cr*p. Buy the frame from TT
because it is well built in terms of strength or because it is vintage
legal. Just don't expect your car with its new frame to handle well
with unless you purchase adjustable a-arms as well. The frame was not
straight the center line was not in the middle of the backbone in the
rear and the flanges on the rear of the car were not at 90 degrees. The
front was nearly dead on to his credit.
This car was downright dangerous to drive. The rear suspension
components were all from TT. They were purportedly designed to work
together for this application and particular purpose. They were not
properly constructed.
It is true, I was disappointed with his response to my inquiries. I was
hoping he would just give me credit toward new adjustable a-arms (heck
even just part credit as a gesture). What was I going to do with the
whacked out a-arms anyway? But he basically said, "hey these are old
arms and I don't know how they were installed. Hmmmm. I went back and
checked to see if the prior owner had installed them facing backwards?
No. There is only one way to install them and unless they shrink and
warp with age, they were off from the factory. It was only a few
hundred dollars and some time, but I felt that some principles were
breached.
All in all I feel more sorry for the prior owner who spend five digits
of denaro at TT and who never got to enjoy a good handling elan before
selling it. So the moral of the story is: Kudos to TT for making this
stuff. He does a "good" job. But don't skimp. Buy the adjustable
stuff. And don't expect a great return policy from TT even if he screws
up the part.
Rant over.
By the way, Tony Ingram modified the TT control arms and did a great
job. I can even adjust the rear toe in situ now. Ask me for photos if
you want. Also, thank you Rohan for the suspension set up advice. I
followed it to a "T" although I did not use as much neg camber because I
am running bias ply Avons rather than radials. I really appreciate your
advice.
Pete
out.
I brought up the issue again because it turned out that it was a
combination of the frame AND the wishbones. I agree with Rohan to that
it should be hard to screw up the frame mounts (although just having the
mounting holes off a smidge on the tabs is enough to do it on the
outboard end of a tire). It would also be hard to screw up the
wishbones as you (presumably) weld them on a jig. Also, I had been
informed that the wishbones had the toe "built in" rather than the
frame. In any case, there was waaaay too much toe in -- nearly an inch.
I did not figure it out until we did a full race string alignment
(finding the center of the car etc.) where the faults were.
Don't get me wrong the frame LOOKS great, appears well built, and it is
new at least in terms of use. The prior owner of the car did not drive
it much -- probably because it drove like cr*p. Buy the frame from TT
because it is well built in terms of strength or because it is vintage
legal. Just don't expect your car with its new frame to handle well
with unless you purchase adjustable a-arms as well. The frame was not
straight the center line was not in the middle of the backbone in the
rear and the flanges on the rear of the car were not at 90 degrees. The
front was nearly dead on to his credit.
This car was downright dangerous to drive. The rear suspension
components were all from TT. They were purportedly designed to work
together for this application and particular purpose. They were not
properly constructed.
It is true, I was disappointed with his response to my inquiries. I was
hoping he would just give me credit toward new adjustable a-arms (heck
even just part credit as a gesture). What was I going to do with the
whacked out a-arms anyway? But he basically said, "hey these are old
arms and I don't know how they were installed. Hmmmm. I went back and
checked to see if the prior owner had installed them facing backwards?
No. There is only one way to install them and unless they shrink and
warp with age, they were off from the factory. It was only a few
hundred dollars and some time, but I felt that some principles were
breached.
All in all I feel more sorry for the prior owner who spend five digits
of denaro at TT and who never got to enjoy a good handling elan before
selling it. So the moral of the story is: Kudos to TT for making this
stuff. He does a "good" job. But don't skimp. Buy the adjustable
stuff. And don't expect a great return policy from TT even if he screws
up the part.
Rant over.
By the way, Tony Ingram modified the TT control arms and did a great
job. I can even adjust the rear toe in situ now. Ask me for photos if
you want. Also, thank you Rohan for the suspension set up advice. I
followed it to a "T" although I did not use as much neg camber because I
am running bias ply Avons rather than radials. I really appreciate your
advice.
Pete
- pinsx3
- Second Gear
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 16 Sep 2003
With a stock +2 frame and stock rear A-arms, I had too much toe in. There
was no evidence of damage to frame or A-arms. I was able to correct with
offset bushings.
Ken
'69 Lotus Elan +2 with BDR
_____
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Rohan Hodges
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:46 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
It would be very hard to make a chassis with excess rear toe-in as the
rear A-frame mounting points are Parallel and the dimesions are very
easy to check when making the plates that span the chassis bottom tray
and form the rear mounting points. The small amount of toe in is built
into the A frames and these should be always checked if you have
excessive amounts of toe in or toe out as they have probably been bent
or made wrong if new.
Rohan
_____
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan> " on the web.
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
***@***.***
<mailto:***@***.***ect=Unsubscribe>
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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
_____
was no evidence of damage to frame or A-arms. I was able to correct with
offset bushings.
Ken
'69 Lotus Elan +2 with BDR
_____
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Rohan Hodges
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:46 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
It would be very hard to make a chassis with excess rear toe-in as the
rear A-frame mounting points are Parallel and the dimesions are very
easy to check when making the plates that span the chassis bottom tray
and form the rear mounting points. The small amount of toe in is built
into the A frames and these should be always checked if you have
excessive amounts of toe in or toe out as they have probably been bent
or made wrong if new.
Rohan
_____
* Visit your group "lotuselan
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan> " on the web.
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
***@***.***
<mailto:***@***.***ect=Unsubscribe>
* the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
_____
'69 Lotus Elan +2 with Cosworth BDR
'84 Ferrari 400i
'94 Subaru SVX
'04 Audi allroad
'84 Ferrari 400i
'94 Subaru SVX
'04 Audi allroad
- lotuselan2
- Fourth Gear
- Posts: 556
- Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Wait a moment here. A new chassis should have been manufactured on a jig and
be accurate to thou's.
You should not have to buy adjustable anything to make the car handle!
I realise for specific racing applications additional adjustment may be
required, but if this is required of road use something is seriously wrong
with the chassis!
David
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Steve Waterworth
Sent: 13 April 2006 09:50
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
You can get adjustable rear arms from
http://www.racecar.co.uk/kelvedonlotus/
Peter Steilberg wrote:
be accurate to thou's.
You should not have to buy adjustable anything to make the car handle!
I realise for specific racing applications additional adjustment may be
required, but if this is required of road use something is seriously wrong
with the chassis!
David
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Steve Waterworth
Sent: 13 April 2006 09:50
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
You can get adjustable rear arms from
http://www.racecar.co.uk/kelvedonlotus/
Peter Steilberg wrote:
- davidallen
- Third Gear
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 11 Aug 2005
David
you are correct but it appears from the discussions that this chassis is not
new. If it is on a race car it may well have had an off at some stage, then
adjustable suspension can correct any MINOR problems of misalignment but not
a bent chassis
Dave Hughes
Elan 26R
----- Original Message -----
From: "ALLEN, David" <***@***.***>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
you are correct but it appears from the discussions that this chassis is not
new. If it is on a race car it may well have had an off at some stage, then
adjustable suspension can correct any MINOR problems of misalignment but not
a bent chassis
Dave Hughes
Elan 26R
----- Original Message -----
From: "ALLEN, David" <***@***.***>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Tony Thompson Frames Buyer Beware
Dave Hughes
S2 26R
Elan DHC Sprint
Shapecraft Honda powered S1(in progress)
Turbocharged 26R clone (also in progress)
Evora 400 development car ex Lotus Factory
S2 26R
Elan DHC Sprint
Shapecraft Honda powered S1(in progress)
Turbocharged 26R clone (also in progress)
Evora 400 development car ex Lotus Factory
-
bigvalvehead - Third Gear
- Posts: 441
- Joined: 11 Sep 2003
I bought one of TTR's frames some years back, after to talking with Tony on
the phone and corresponding by telefax or email. He said they were very
carefully jigged and wrote that he didn't galvanize them because the process
distorted the frames a bit and made the careful jigging pointless. I must
say the frame, when it arrived, did meet my expectations and that I have
been quite happy with it. I did buy other parts from Tony, including his
rear A-frames, first with bushes then eventually with rose-joints when I
went seriously into vintage-racing mode. They were quite good products, in
my opinion.
I live in Manila, so always expect that after-sales service will be nil.
However, Tony took a great deal of time writing notes to me on installation,
gave advice over the telephone or telefax freely, even on lubricants to use,
break-in, etc, and was generally quite helpful, as I was (and remain) quite
a novice in race preparation. Considering the distance, it would have been
very easy for Tony to send me a duff part and then ignore my complaints.
That did not happen to me, and my business relations with Tony were always a
pleasure.
I am quite grateful to him as he has provided us Elan enthusiasts a source
for magnesium uprights, aluminum gearbox cases, and other goodies that
otherwise may not be available. Dave Bean also deserves mention here - I
tended to order from him, as against other suppliers, as a way of thanking
him for his wonderful Elan catalog.
I recall, on the matter of the A-arms, that Tony had taken issue with the
fact that the A-arms were sold long before the complaint, but my memory
might not be dependable in this regard, so I apologize if I am wrong.
It is very easy to destroy reputations on the Internet, and I would hate to
have tis happen to Tony, who seems to me to be truly enthusiastic about the
Elan and over 20 years has I think been well regarded in the Elan world. I
am not saying the complaints are not valid, as obviously I have no basis for
saying so, but do want to state that my experience with Tony has been
excellent, both in terms of the products and his service.
With best regards to all,
Andres
Manila
45 DHC 1969
the phone and corresponding by telefax or email. He said they were very
carefully jigged and wrote that he didn't galvanize them because the process
distorted the frames a bit and made the careful jigging pointless. I must
say the frame, when it arrived, did meet my expectations and that I have
been quite happy with it. I did buy other parts from Tony, including his
rear A-frames, first with bushes then eventually with rose-joints when I
went seriously into vintage-racing mode. They were quite good products, in
my opinion.
I live in Manila, so always expect that after-sales service will be nil.
However, Tony took a great deal of time writing notes to me on installation,
gave advice over the telephone or telefax freely, even on lubricants to use,
break-in, etc, and was generally quite helpful, as I was (and remain) quite
a novice in race preparation. Considering the distance, it would have been
very easy for Tony to send me a duff part and then ignore my complaints.
That did not happen to me, and my business relations with Tony were always a
pleasure.
I am quite grateful to him as he has provided us Elan enthusiasts a source
for magnesium uprights, aluminum gearbox cases, and other goodies that
otherwise may not be available. Dave Bean also deserves mention here - I
tended to order from him, as against other suppliers, as a way of thanking
him for his wonderful Elan catalog.
I recall, on the matter of the A-arms, that Tony had taken issue with the
fact that the A-arms were sold long before the complaint, but my memory
might not be dependable in this regard, so I apologize if I am wrong.
It is very easy to destroy reputations on the Internet, and I would hate to
have tis happen to Tony, who seems to me to be truly enthusiastic about the
Elan and over 20 years has I think been well regarded in the Elan world. I
am not saying the complaints are not valid, as obviously I have no basis for
saying so, but do want to state that my experience with Tony has been
excellent, both in terms of the products and his service.
With best regards to all,
Andres
Manila
45 DHC 1969
- abstamaria
- Fourth Gear
- Posts: 637
- Joined: 12 Nov 2010
David:
To clear up any ambiguities. My chassis was NEW, not used. I bought
it from the president of the Lotus Club out here who bought it from
TT. Yes, he drove it prior to selling but very little and on the
road. It was never tracked or raced (before I bought it), never
damaged, hardly driven and in beautiful shape. But it was out of
whack from the factory. I can post pictures. Anyway, damage to
frames rarely results in an even 7/8 inch of rear toe!
Pete
David Wrote: >
To clear up any ambiguities. My chassis was NEW, not used. I bought
it from the president of the Lotus Club out here who bought it from
TT. Yes, he drove it prior to selling but very little and on the
road. It was never tracked or raced (before I bought it), never
damaged, hardly driven and in beautiful shape. But it was out of
whack from the factory. I can post pictures. Anyway, damage to
frames rarely results in an even 7/8 inch of rear toe!
Pete
David Wrote: >
- pinsx3
- Second Gear
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 16 Sep 2003
I think he is great. He makes hardtops, bodies, frames, seats, wheels
and all this other really cool stuff for the car I love more than any
other. His products are well built and high quality. His products
are probably better than any other lotus aftermarket builder. Heck,
they are probably better than the original stuff that came from
Lotus. I have purchased flares, hardtops, wheels, suspension, -- just
about a whole car from various venders. Hardly any of them are
perfect. Most need to be modified in some way. It is normal. There
is nothing wrong with having to modify something to make it work.
Pete
and all this other really cool stuff for the car I love more than any
other. His products are well built and high quality. His products
are probably better than any other lotus aftermarket builder. Heck,
they are probably better than the original stuff that came from
Lotus. I have purchased flares, hardtops, wheels, suspension, -- just
about a whole car from various venders. Hardly any of them are
perfect. Most need to be modified in some way. It is normal. There
is nothing wrong with having to modify something to make it work.
Pete
- pinsx3
- Second Gear
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 16 Sep 2003
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