Lotus Elan

Any Interest in Wilwood Front Brake Caliper Brackets?

PostPost by: "dklindemann" » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:02 am

Hi folks -
I'm a Lotus Europa owner and I'm new to this group. My understanding
is that both the Elan and the Europa share the same front brakes
(Triumph Spitfire). I am in the process of upgrading the brakes on my
Europa to 4 piston Wilwood calipers front and rear. I am currently
obtaining bids to have new front brake caliper mounting brackets
fabricated. The brackets will accomodate the stock solid .38" X
9.125" front rotor. The caliper is a 4-piston Wilwood Dynalite - I'm
using 1.75" bore piston calipers but 1.38" and 1.62" are available
(I'm not providing calipers or pads - but have a good source). The
bracket will be CNC machined from 7075 aluminum that will be hard-
anodized to protect against corrosion. Is there any interest?
Thanks!
Dave Lindemann
Lotus Owners Oftha North (LOON)
Hugo, MN
USA
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PostPost by: steveww » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:21 am

Here in the UK Rally Design http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/ already supply
a mounting kit for the Elan. You need to ask them for their M16/P16
Wilwood kit. The P16 and M16 Girling caliper are essentailly the same
with the M16 being the metric version of the P16. The P16 was used IIRC
on the Triumph GT6 and TR6 and on the Lotus Elan +2 and various other UK
cars at the time. It is a popular upgrade for the ever popular Ford
Escort Mk1 & Mk2.
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PostPost by: dlindemann at aol.com » Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:35 pm

Hi Steve -
Thanks for the information. The difference is that the brackets I am having
fabricated are for 4 piston calipers - not 2 piston. The caliper mount
spacing is totally different.
Dave Lindemann
dlindemann at aol.com
 

PostPost by: markvo » Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:43 pm

John Zender in California sells a front setup that a couple of our Europa members are using, with a larger vented disk and Wilwood calipers. I think you should look into larger front discs.
- Mark V
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PostPost by: dlindemann at aol.com » Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:15 pm

Hi Mark -
Yes, I'm aware of John's setup. The problem is his kit requires a larger
wheel size for clearance and many Europa owners don't want to change wheels.
Personally, I'm using 15" Panasports but I'm trying to keep things stock where
it makes sense. I've also heard from others that going with vented rotors
is way overkill not to mention the significant increase in cost and weight.
Just my .02
Dave Lindemann
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PostPost by: steveww » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:25 pm

Perhaps I did not make myself clear. The Rally Design set up uses either
the midilite or powerlite 4 pot calipers. As for vented disks; fit them
if you want to look pretty but there is no need for the extra unsprung
weight to stop a 700kg car.

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PostPost by: steveww » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:41 pm

BTW you might also want to check out http://www.hispecmotorsport.co.uk/
These guys make a 4 pot light alloy M16 caliper which may bolt straight
on. Not too sure about the exact differences between P16 & M16. Anyway
as these guys make them I am sure they could do some tweeks to make
their M16 to P16 specs.
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PostPost by: dlindemann at aol.com » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:03 pm

Sorry, I misunderstood. Very interesting site - the biggest drawback for
those in the US is the exchange rate. For the cost of one of their calipers
with the modified mount I can buy 2 calipers with pads and pay for shipping.
Not sure where the comment about vented rotors came from - I'm using the stock
solid rotors.
Thanks for the information.
Dave Lindemann
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PostPost by: Arno Church » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:07 am

IMHO opinion the car would be overbraked at the front and you may have to
fit a brake balance compensator.

I run the 1.75 Dynalites on my racing seven . I had to upgrade the rear
brakes as well and I have a twin master cyl setup with a balance bar

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PostPost by: Arno Church » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:16 am

The Rally Design kit is for is for the four pot Dynalite



Also Wilwood now make 4 pot Dynalite calliper that bolts onto the M16
mountings - forgot their name but it is on their website .

Mounting holes are 88 point something millimeters



Arno




Hi Steve -
Thanks for the information. The difference is that the brackets I am
having
fabricated are for 4 piston calipers - not 2 piston. The caliper mount
spacing is totally different.
Dave Lindemann




_____
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PostPost by: Arno Church » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:20 am

Both Wilwood and Hispec are made in the US of A and they both make M16 /P16
bolt on callipers



And then there is Outlaw brakes as well

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PostPost by: M100 » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:30 am

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:32:01 +0200, Arno Church wrote:

Both Wilwood and Hispec are made in the US of A and they both make M16 /P16
bolt on callipers

The American's can take the blame for the Wilwood's but the Hispec's
are unfortunately British made.

After seeing their performance "under pressure" - (More cheese,
Gromit?) I would only ever recommend AP or Alcon calipers which are
engineered and manufactured on a different plane altogether.

--
Martin
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PostPost by: patrics » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:01 am

Hi Gents,

It would be a retrograde step to fit larger brakes to the front of a Europa
all your efforts and money should go into changing the rear to disc brake If
you really feel that you must change the front then stick with the same size
caliper (Type 14) and fit a wider or vented disc.

If you already have P16 calipers on an Elan then a part from weight
reduction I cannot see the point fitting alloy calipers. If the overall
piston diameter is the same, the disc has the same effective radius then
with the same pads the performance will be the identical. The alloy may not
be as stiff as the iron caliper so pedal travel may increase. Some of the
Wilwood calipers I've seen have internal porting which is exactly what you
don't want in an alloy "racing" type caliper

On the bracket side the M16 calipers fitted to Ford vehicle have different
mounting centers compared to the P and PB16 calipers fitted to the +2

Regards
Steve
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PostPost by: steveww » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:06 pm

The main reason to go for an alloy caliper is the reduction in unsprung
weight. The iron P16 weighs in at around 5kg where as the alloy ones are
around 1kg. The 4 pot design will also have a larger pad area which will
reduce the temp. Given that the car only weighs in at around 700kg I
don't think the extra cooling from vented disk is worth the extra weight
of these items. My S4 has the P16 calipers with slotted disks and
blasting through Massive Central in France, two up with luggage I got
the brakes very hot but they did not fade and the pedal stayed firm. A
lighter car (no luggage when racing) and shorter distance of a typical
race should not challenge solid disks. (my 2p).

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PostPost by: steveww » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:10 pm

BTW: The Powerlite caliper is available as a rear version (smaller
pistons and mechanical handbrake). IMHO this would be a good swap out
for the poor Elan set up. Anyone interested in getting together to have
a mounting bracket made up?
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