Lotus Elan

Exhaust-side oil drainage

PostPost by: richboyd » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:57 am

Has anyone ever contemplated fabricating an oil drain for the rear ofthe head on the exhaust side? Something to keep oil from pooling aroundthe tappets in such large quantities. Maybe some outdoor plumbing; apipe fitted to a hole drilled in the head and draining back to thesump. Or is such an idea sheer lunacy? Loss of all the engine's oiljust waiting to happen. I would be interested in the thoughts of thosethat have contemplated such a drain.

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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:51 am

Rich

The later heads had a cross drilling at the rear from the exhaust to
the inlet side where there is better drainage. Dont know when this
was introduced but my two later heads have it and my early head does
not.

In practice with the right valve stem clearances non of them smoke in
normal use.

I understood the cross drilling was introduced to stop smoking
complaints when the car was parked on a slope with its nose steeply
uphill. Over night the oil would drain into the exhaust through the
rear valve guide which was below the pooled oil level if the hill was
steep enough. This resulted in a large cloud of smoke on startup.

No one in real life parks their Elan on a steep hill as no one really
trusts the hand brake !!!

Rohan





--- In ***@***.***, "Richard Boyd" <[email protected]> wrote:
Has anyone ever contemplated fabricating an oil drain for the rear
ofthe head on the exhaust side? Something to keep oil from pooling

aroundthe tappets in such large quantities. Maybe some outdoor
plumbing; apipe fitted to a hole drilled in the head and draining
back to thesump. Or is such an idea sheer lunacy? Loss of all the
engine's oiljust waiting to happen. I would be interested in the
thoughts of thosethat have contemplated such a drain.

Rich Boyd






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PostPost by: "Eric Salomon" » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:03 pm

In my experience, worn valve guides = smoke on start up. New or good
guides don't.



I also found that if you don't use the original or quality replacement
guides, they wear very quickly which = smoke on start up within months
or even right away in some cases. It is not so bad for racing, but
embarrassing on a road car.



I have used, for example, Perkins guides which are identical in diameter
and bore; they just required shortening, but started smoking very
quickly.



I don't think that modifying the head is the answer - the designer was
very clever and I am sure he knew more about cylinder heads than us. New
guides are cheep enough anyway.



Regards



Eric



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Rohan Hodges
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:51 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Exhaust-side oil drainage



Rich

The later heads had a cross drilling at the rear from the exhaust to
the inlet side where there is better drainage. Dont know when this
was introduced but my two later heads have it and my early head does
not.

In practice with the right valve stem clearances non of them smoke in
normal use.

I understood the cross drilling was introduced to stop smoking
complaints when the car was parked on a slope with its nose steeply
uphill. Over night the oil would drain into the exhaust through the
rear valve guide which was below the pooled oil level if the hill was
steep enough. This resulted in a large cloud of smoke on startup.

No one in real life parks their Elan on a steep hill as no one really
trusts the hand brake !!!

Rohan





--- In ***@***.***, "Richard Boyd" <[email protected]> wrote:
Has anyone ever contemplated fabricating an oil drain for the rear
ofthe head on the exhaust side? Something to keep oil from pooling

aroundthe tappets in such large quantities. Maybe some outdoor
plumbing; apipe fitted to a hole drilled in the head and draining
back to thesump. Or is such an idea sheer lunacy? Loss of all the
engine's oiljust waiting to happen. I would be interested in the
thoughts of thosethat have contemplated such a drain.

Rich Boyd


















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PostPost by: poiuyt » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:12 am

Rich,

What's the matter - it doesn't have enough places to leak oil from
already?

Steve B.



--- In ***@***.***, "Richard Boyd" <[email protected]> wrote:
Has anyone ever contemplated fabricating an oil drain for the rear
ofthe head on the exhaust side? Something to keep oil from pooling

aroundthe tappets in such large quantities. Maybe some outdoor
plumbing; apipe fitted to a hole drilled in the head and draining
back to thesump. Or is such an idea sheer lunacy? Loss of all the
engine's oiljust waiting to happen. I would be interested in the
thoughts of thosethat have contemplated such a drain.

Rich Boyd






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PostPost by: davidallen » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:29 pm

If the designer was very clever, why did he come up with such an awful
design for the water pump!

Don't bother replying, - I know the answer already!

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Salomon [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 27 February 2006 14:42
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Exhaust-side oil drainage


In my experience, worn valve guides = smoke on start up. New or good
guides don't.



I also found that if you don't use the original or quality replacement
guides, they wear very quickly which = smoke on start up within months
or even right away in some cases. It is not so bad for racing, but
embarrassing on a road car.



I have used, for example, Perkins guides which are identical in diameter
and bore; they just required shortening, but started smoking very
quickly.



I don't think that modifying the head is the answer - the designer was
very clever and I am sure he knew more about cylinder heads than us. New
guides are cheep enough anyway.



Regards



Eric



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Rohan Hodges
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:51 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Exhaust-side oil drainage



Rich

The later heads had a cross drilling at the rear from the exhaust to
the inlet side where there is better drainage. Dont know when this
was introduced but my two later heads have it and my early head does
not.

In practice with the right valve stem clearances non of them smoke in
normal use.

I understood the cross drilling was introduced to stop smoking
complaints when the car was parked on a slope with its nose steeply
uphill. Over night the oil would drain into the exhaust through the
rear valve guide which was below the pooled oil level if the hill was
steep enough. This resulted in a large cloud of smoke on startup.

No one in real life parks their Elan on a steep hill as no one really
trusts the hand brake !!!

Rohan





--- In ***@***.***, "Richard Boyd" <[email protected]> wrote:
Has anyone ever contemplated fabricating an oil drain for the rear
ofthe head on the exhaust side? Something to keep oil from pooling

aroundthe tappets in such large quantities. Maybe some outdoor
plumbing; apipe fitted to a hole drilled in the head and draining
back to thesump. Or is such an idea sheer lunacy? Loss of all the
engine's oiljust waiting to happen. I would be interested in the
thoughts of thosethat have contemplated such a drain.

Rich Boyd


















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PostPost by: stupidemail5 at lycos.com » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:02 pm

Umm, I could be wrong, but original guides would be iron, not bronze and lasted a hefty 30k miles. Sure, my car had many more on it before they were changed, but they came out in pieces. My guess is they were out of tolerance in 15k miles. the lack of seals is also a serious engineering problem if you intend to not burn oil.

The twin cam is a nice little motor, but it is no engineering study






-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Salomon [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 27 February 2006 14:42
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Exhaust-side oil drainage


In my experience, worn valve guides = smoke on start up. New or good
guides don't.



I also found that if you don't use the original or quality replacement
guides, they wear very quickly which = smoke on start up within months
or even right away in some cases. It is not so bad for racing, but
embarrassing on a road car.



I have used, for example, Perkins guides which are identical in diameter
and bore; they just required shortening, but started smoking very
quickly.



I don't think that modifying the head is the answer - the designer was
very clever and I am sure he knew more about cylinder heads than us. New
guides are cheep enough anyway.



Regards



Eric



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Rohan Hodges
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:51 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Exhaust-side oil drainage



Rich

The later heads had a cross drilling at the rear from the exhaust to
the inlet side where there is better drainage. Dont know when this
was introduced but my two later heads have it and my early head does
not.

In practice with the right valve stem clearances non of them smoke in
normal use.

I understood the cross drilling was introduced to stop smoking
complaints when the car was parked on a slope with its nose steeply
uphill. Over night the oil would drain into the exhaust through the
rear valve guide which was below the pooled oil level if the hill was
steep enough. This resulted in a large cloud of smoke on startup.

No one in real life parks their Elan on a steep hill as no one really
trusts the hand brake !!!

Rohan





--- In ***@***.***, "Richard Boyd" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever contemplated fabricating an oil drain for the rear
ofthe head on the exhaust side? Something to keep oil from pooling
aroundthe tappets in such large quantities. Maybe some outdoor
plumbing; apipe fitted to a hole drilled in the head and draining
back to thesump. Or is such an idea sheer lunacy? Loss of all the
engine's oiljust waiting to happen. I would be interested in the
thoughts of thosethat have contemplated such a drain.
>
> Rich Boyd
>
>
>
>
>
>












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PostPost by: "Eric Salomon" » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:52 am

The twin cam is a really good engine - one of the best - in its day.



To give you and idea of what was expected, my 1967 fiat 124 owners
manual recommended a de-coke every 25 000 miles. We are very spoiled
with the modern engines.



Besides, they did not seem to mind dripping and using a bit of oil in
those days, especially as service intervals were only 1 000 miles.



Regards



Eric



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:02 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Exhaust-side oil drainage




Umm, I could be wrong, but original guides would be iron, not bronze and
lasted a hefty 30k miles. Sure, my car had many more on it before they
were changed, but they came out in pieces. My guess is they were out of
tolerance in 15k miles. the lack of seals is also a serious engineering
problem if you intend to not burn oil.

The twin cam is a nice little motor, but it is no engineering study






-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Salomon [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 27 February 2006 14:42
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Exhaust-side oil drainage


In my experience, worn valve guides = smoke on start up. New or good
guides don't.



I also found that if you don't use the original or quality replacement
guides, they wear very quickly which = smoke on start up within months
or even right away in some cases. It is not so bad for racing, but
embarrassing on a road car.



I have used, for example, Perkins guides which are identical in
diameter

and bore; they just required shortening, but started smoking very
quickly.



I don't think that modifying the head is the answer - the designer was
very clever and I am sure he knew more about cylinder heads than us.
New

guides are cheep enough anyway.



Regards



Eric



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Rohan Hodges
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:51 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Exhaust-side oil drainage



Rich

The later heads had a cross drilling at the rear from the exhaust to
the inlet side where there is better drainage. Dont know when this
was introduced but my two later heads have it and my early head does
not.

In practice with the right valve stem clearances non of them smoke in
normal use.

I understood the cross drilling was introduced to stop smoking
complaints when the car was parked on a slope with its nose steeply
uphill. Over night the oil would drain into the exhaust through the
rear valve guide which was below the pooled oil level if the hill was
steep enough. This resulted in a large cloud of smoke on startup.

No one in real life parks their Elan on a steep hill as no one really
trusts the hand brake !!!

Rohan





--- In ***@***.***, "Richard Boyd" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever contemplated fabricating an oil drain for the rear
ofthe head on the exhaust side? Something to keep oil from pooling
aroundthe tappets in such large quantities. Maybe some outdoor
plumbing; apipe fitted to a hole drilled in the head and draining
back to thesump. Or is such an idea sheer lunacy? Loss of all the
engine's oiljust waiting to happen. I would be interested in the
thoughts of thosethat have contemplated such a drain.
>
> Rich Boyd
>
>
>
>
>
>












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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:39 am

It might not be a "engineeering study, but for the reported ?1000
that Harry Mundy recieved, it was a very good value to Lotus. It cost
Ford 100 times that for Cosworth FVA and DFV and they just got the
publicity, not a production engine to power their complete production
line for 13 years. This isn't a slam at Cosworth, I'm just trying to
put it into perspective.

Gary
--- In ***@***.***, ***@***.***e:

Umm, I could be wrong, but original guides would be iron, not bronze
and lasted a hefty 30k miles. Sure, my car had many more on it before

they were changed, but they came out in pieces. My guess is they were
out of tolerance in 15k miles. the lack of seals is also a serious
engineering problem if you intend to not burn oil.

The twin cam is a nice little motor, but it is no engineering study
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