Lotus Elan

Elan Anti Theft - Recommendations?

PostPost by: "nebogipfel2004" » Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:57 pm

Hi All,

Any recommendations for anti theft measures for a D/H Elan?

I would like a physical mechanical deterent preferably (ie no
electronic immobilisers).

I like the handbrake to gearlever devices but they will not work on an
Elan of course.

Any thoughts?

John
"nebogipfel2004"
 

PostPost by: steveww » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:37 am

There are a number of very good steering wheel clamps which should do
the trick. On my S4 I have a battery cut off switch in the boot, this
can be turned off and the boot locked. OK so the boot lock is not the
best but it will slow them down a bit. The sad truth is that if someone
really wants to steal your car there is not a lot you can do to stop
them. However a friend of mine has an old LandRover and he leaves his
Doberman bitch alsleep on the front seats with a sign "Go ahead make her
day". No one has stolen it so far.

nebogipfel2004 wrote:
Hi All,

Any recommendations for anti theft measures for a D/H Elan?

I would like a physical mechanical deterent preferably (ie no
electronic immobilisers).

I like the handbrake to gearlever devices but they will not work on an
Elan of course.

Any thoughts?

John







To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html



Yahoo! Groups Links









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Regards,

Steve Waterworth
***@***.***

Einstein: "The faster you drive, the slower you age..."
User avatar
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PostPost by: "steve_071" » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:58 am

Hi John,

At home I disconnect the battery as in Steve W's reply. I also have
a six foot long case hardened chain which I wrap around the chassis
and secure to an anchor plate in my garage floor with a case hardened
lock. If nothing else it would slow thieves down.

When I am out I don't let the car out of my sight :). Not quiet that
drastic but mine is a weekend toy and doesn't get parked anywhere
bad. I have read about removable steering wheels in some of the
forums which I think would make it terribly difficult to take. I
think
the problem is you don't really need to drive an Elan to steal it,
you
could just push it away :).

The dog idea sounds good!

Steve.
"steve_071"
 

PostPost by: v7slr » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:25 am

I currently have a Caterham and as is the custom for the newer cars (those
in the last 8 years or so) it has a removable steering wheel. It does give a
great sense of security when we travel all over Europe during the Summer (in
convoy - see http://www.badgerum.com/se7enstour/) but you do feel a berk
when a crowd of you, all sporting little MOMO wheels in hand, turn up at a
restaurant in the middle of the day.



Some of the quick release mechanisms aren't very good either. The wheel
never feels tight on the spline. Caterham fits a sprung type which is
properly quick at releasing whereas I feel for a security-only measure it is
more important that it fits tightly on the spline, even if it takes 1 second
longer to get off. There was talk a while ago on the Se7ens list
(www.se7ens.net <http://www.se7ens.net/> ) of there being a better QR
mechanism available but I can't find the details now. Worth having a look at
Demon Tweaks if you have their catalogue (I don't have one to hand).
Irritatingly, their web site doesn't show everything they stock.



Other mechanisms include an FIA battery master key/switch. Any similar FIA
key would fit any switch but the chances of a thief having one to hand is
slight. Ultimately though some sort of electronic immobiliser affords you
the best sense of security if you want to leave you car unattended. We leave
Se7ens for short periods all over Europe, whether it be for midday dinner or
overnight at various Hotels, and we've never (yet - crossed fingers) had any
problems. Perhaps the Se7en is a less likely car to attract unwanted
attention owing to the fact that it's pretty obvious to spot and not very
easy to get into, but it doesn't stop owners worrying as you guys are.



Incidentally, I'm selling my Se7en and looking for a knackered +2 for
renovation. I need extra seats for my new family. Wish me luck.



-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of steve_071
Sent: 08 July 2005 02:58
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Elan Anti Theft - Recommendations?



Hi John,

At home I disconnect the battery as in Steve W's reply. I also have
a six foot long case hardened chain which I wrap around the chassis
and secure to an anchor plate in my garage floor with a case hardened
lock. If nothing else it would slow thieves down.

When I am out I don't let the car out of my sight :). Not quiet that
drastic but mine is a weekend toy and doesn't get parked anywhere
bad. I have read about removable steering wheels in some of the
forums which I think would make it terribly difficult to take. I
think
the problem is you don't really need to drive an Elan to steal it,
you
could just push it away :).

The dog idea sounds good!

Steve.









To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:





_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "lotuselan
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan> " on the web.

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PostPost by: steveww » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:41 am

Electronic immobilisers are of no use on an old Elan. All you have to do
is run a wire from the fuse box to the coil and you are ready to go.
Electronically a battery cut off is the only way to go. My car has an
electric fuel pump and I have thought about putting a hidden switch in
the circuit. It would allow the car to be started and driven a couple of
hundred yards before the float chambres emptied. I am sure the theif
would not want to hang about at the side of the road trying to figure
out what when wrong.

Nigel Marston wrote:
I currently have a Caterham and as is the custom for the newer cars (those
in the last 8 years or so) it has a removable steering wheel. It does give a
great sense of security when we travel all over Europe during the Summer (in
convoy - see http://www.badgerum.com/se7enstour/) but you do feel a berk
when a crowd of you, all sporting little MOMO wheels in hand, turn up at a
restaurant in the middle of the day.



Some of the quick release mechanisms aren't very good either. The wheel
never feels tight on the spline. Caterham fits a sprung type which is
properly quick at releasing whereas I feel for a security-only measure it is
more important that it fits tightly on the spline, even if it takes 1 second
longer to get off. There was talk a while ago on the Se7ens list
(www.se7ens.net <http://www.se7ens.net/> ) of there being a better QR
mechanism available but I can't find the details now. Worth having a look at
Demon Tweaks if you have their catalogue (I don't have one to hand).
Irritatingly, their web site doesn't show everything they stock.



Other mechanisms include an FIA battery master key/switch. Any similar FIA
key would fit any switch but the chances of a thief having one to hand is
slight. Ultimately though some sort of electronic immobiliser affords you
the best sense of security if you want to leave you car unattended. We leave
Se7ens for short periods all over Europe, whether it be for midday dinner or
overnight at various Hotels, and we've never (yet - crossed fingers) had any
problems. Perhaps the Se7en is a less likely car to attract unwanted
attention owing to the fact that it's pretty obvious to spot and not very
easy to get into, but it doesn't stop owners worrying as you guys are.



Incidentally, I'm selling my Se7en and looking for a knackered +2 for
renovation. I need extra seats for my new family. Wish me luck.



-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of steve_071
Sent: 08 July 2005 02:58
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Elan Anti Theft - Recommendations?



Hi John,

At home I disconnect the battery as in Steve W's reply. I also have
a six foot long case hardened chain which I wrap around the chassis
and secure to an anchor plate in my garage floor with a case hardened
lock. If nothing else it would slow thieves down.

When I am out I don't let the car out of my sight :). Not quiet that
drastic but mine is a weekend toy and doesn't get parked anywhere
bad. I have read about removable steering wheels in some of the
forums which I think would make it terribly difficult to take. I
think
the problem is you don't really need to drive an Elan to steal it,
you
could just push it away :).

The dog idea sounds good!

Steve.









To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:





_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "lotuselan
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
***@***.***
<mailto:***@***.***ect=Unsubscribe>

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_____










To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html



Yahoo! Groups Links









--

Regards,

Steve Waterworth
***@***.***

Einstein: "The faster you drive, the slower you age..."
User avatar
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Coveted Fifth Gear
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Posts: 1838
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PostPost by: "elj221c" » Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:24 pm

Steve,

I have exactly that on my S2 which saved me a few years ago.
Parked at a railway station all day while at work, I returned to an
empty space but found the car at the far end of the carpark near the
exit, float chambers dry.

I didn't hide the switch. It just sits on the (custom)dash like
any of the others, my theory being that a hidden switch can be
found. A little more tricky if you have an original dash I know.
It's also easy to get at if you need to turn the pump off in a hurry.

When I get the car back on the road (long term rebuild project!)I
will also get a 'discarnet' type of switch as well.

I also like the removeable wheel idea as well but I have heard of
cars being stolen, driven using a mole wrench on the splines!

Roy
'65 S2
"elj221c"
 

PostPost by: "nebogipfel2004" » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:24 pm

Thanks for all the replies chaps :)

I like the fuel cut-off idea but still have the mechanical pump on mine.

I will certainly fit a battery cut off in the boot somewhere.

Anything to make life difficult for thieves has got to be a good idea

It's a pity we have to worry about our cars when we take them out!

John
"nebogipfel2004"
 

PostPost by: "e s" » Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:42 pm

I think this is the best solution. The +2 of course has the hidden kill switch that blows the horn, which is probably good also.

funny most of the worries seem to be from the UK. I don't think I have heard of many early cars being stolen on this side of the pond. They are not worth much as parts, since it is such a small community. Most of the punks here cannot drive a stick....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Waterworth" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Elan Anti Theft - Recommendations?
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:41:06 +0100


Electronic immobilisers are of no use on an old Elan. All you have to do
is run a wire from the fuse box to the coil and you are ready to go.
Electronically a battery cut off is the only way to go. My car has an
electric fuel pump and I have thought about putting a hidden switch in
the circuit. It would allow the car to be started and driven a couple of
hundred yards before the float chambres emptied. I am sure the theif
would not want to hang about at the side of the road trying to figure
out what when wrong.

Nigel Marston wrote:
> I currently have a Caterham and as is the custom for the newer cars (those
> in the last 8 years or so) it has a removable steering wheel. It does give a
> great sense of security when we travel all over Europe during the Summer (in
> convoy - see http://www.badgerum.com/se7enstour/) but you do feel a berk
> when a crowd of you, all sporting little MOMO wheels in hand, turn up at a
> restaurant in the middle of the day.
>
>
>
> Some of the quick release mechanisms aren't very good either. The wheel
> never feels tight on the spline. Caterham fits a sprung type which is
> properly quick at releasing whereas I feel for a security-only measure it is
> more important that it fits tightly on the spline, even if it takes 1 second
> longer to get off. There was talk a while ago on the Se7ens list
> (www.se7ens.net <http://www.se7ens.net/> ) of there being a better QR
> mechanism available but I can't find the details now. Worth having a look at
> Demon Tweaks if you have their catalogue (I don't have one to hand).
> Irritatingly, their web site doesn't show everything they stock.
>
>
>
> Other mechanisms include an FIA battery master key/switch. Any similar FIA
> key would fit any switch but the chances of a thief having one to hand is
> slight. Ultimately though some sort of electronic immobiliser affords you
> the best sense of security if you want to leave you car unattended. We leave
> Se7ens for short periods all over Europe, whether it be for midday dinner or
> overnight at various Hotels, and we've never (yet - crossed fingers) had any
> problems. Perhaps the Se7en is a less likely car to attract unwanted
> attention owing to the fact that it's pretty obvious to spot and not very
> easy to get into, but it doesn't stop owners worrying as you guys are.
>
>
>
> Incidentally, I'm selling my Se7en and looking for a knackered +2 for
> renovation. I need extra seats for my new family. Wish me luck.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
> Of steve_071
> Sent: 08 July 2005 02:58
> To: ***@***.***
> Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Elan Anti Theft - Recommendations?
>
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> At home I disconnect the battery as in Steve W's reply. I also
> have a six foot long case hardened chain which I wrap around the
> chassis and secure to an anchor plate in my garage floor with a
> case hardened
> lock. If nothing else it would slow thieves down.
>
> When I am out I don't let the car out of my sight :). Not quiet
> that drastic but mine is a weekend toy and doesn't get parked
> anywhere
> bad. I have read about removable steering wheels in some of the
> forums which I think would make it terribly difficult to take. I
> think the problem is you don't really need to drive an Elan to steal it,
> you could just push it away :).
>
> The dog idea sounds good!
>
> Steve.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To search the mailing list archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html
>
> CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:
> _____
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "lotuselan
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ***@***.***
> <mailto:***@***.***ect=Unsubscribe> * Your
> use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service. _____ [Non-text
> portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> To search the mailing list archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--

Regards,

Steve Waterworth
***@***.***

Einstein: "The faster you drive, the slower you age..."


--
_______________________________________________
NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites atonce.
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"e s"
 

PostPost by: poiuyt » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:14 pm

If you have points in the car, run a wire from the positive (hot)
side of the points through a switch to ground and hide the switch.
This puts ground on both sides of the points and there will never be
a spark.

Used this for 8 years on my old X1/9.

Steve B.


--- In ***@***.***, Steve Waterworth <[email protected]>
wrote:
Electronic immobilisers are of no use on an old Elan. All you have
to do

is run a wire from the fuse box to the coil and you are ready to
go.

Electronically a battery cut off is the only way to go. My car has
an

electric fuel pump and I have thought about putting a hidden
switch in

the circuit. It would allow the car to be started and driven a
couple of

hundred yards before the float chambres emptied. I am sure the
theif

would not want to hang about at the side of the road trying to
figure

out what when wrong.

Nigel Marston wrote:
> I currently have a Caterham and as is the custom for the newer
cars (those

> in the last 8 years or so) it has a removable steering wheel. It
does give a

> great sense of security when we travel all over Europe during
the Summer (in

> convoy - see http://www.badgerum.com/se7enstour/) but you do
feel a berk

> when a crowd of you, all sporting little MOMO wheels in hand,
turn up at a

> restaurant in the middle of the day.
>
>
>
> Some of the quick release mechanisms aren't very good either.
The wheel

> never feels tight on the spline. Caterham fits a sprung type
which is

> properly quick at releasing whereas I feel for a security-only
measure it is

> more important that it fits tightly on the spline, even if it
takes 1 second

> longer to get off. There was talk a while ago on the Se7ens list
> (www.se7ens.net <http://www.se7ens.net/> ) of there being a
better QR

> mechanism available but I can't find the details now. Worth
having a look at

> Demon Tweaks if you have their catalogue (I don't have one to
hand).

> Irritatingly, their web site doesn't show everything they stock.
>
>
>
> Other mechanisms include an FIA battery master key/switch. Any
similar FIA

> key would fit any switch but the chances of a thief having one
to hand is

> slight. Ultimately though some sort of electronic immobiliser
affords you

> the best sense of security if you want to leave you car
unattended. We leave

> Se7ens for short periods all over Europe, whether it be for
midday dinner or

> overnight at various Hotels, and we've never (yet - crossed
fingers) had any

> problems. Perhaps the Se7en is a less likely car to attract
unwanted

> attention owing to the fact that it's pretty obvious to spot and
not very

> easy to get into, but it doesn't stop owners worrying as you
guys are.

>
>
>
> Incidentally, I'm selling my Se7en and looking for a knackered
+2 for

> renovation. I need extra seats for my new family. Wish me luck.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ***@***.***
[mailto:***@***.*** Behalf

> Of steve_071
> Sent: 08 July 2005 02:58
> To: ***@***.***
> Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Elan Anti Theft - Recommendations?
>
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> At home I disconnect the battery as in Steve W's reply. I also
have

> a six foot long case hardened chain which I wrap around the
chassis

> and secure to an anchor plate in my garage floor with a case
hardened

> lock. If nothing else it would slow thieves down.
>
> When I am out I don't let the car out of my sight :). Not quiet
that

> drastic but mine is a weekend toy and doesn't get parked anywhere
> bad. I have read about removable steering wheels in some of the
> forums which I think would make it terribly difficult to take. I
> think
> the problem is you don't really need to drive an Elan to steal
it,

> you
> could just push it away :).
>
> The dog idea sounds good!
>
> Steve.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To search the mailing list archives:
>
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

>
> CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "lotuselan
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ***@***.***
> <mailto:***@***.***?
subject=Unsubscribe>

>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To search the mailing list archives:
>
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--

Regards,

Steve Waterworth
[email protected]

Einstein: "The faster you drive, the slower you age..."
Steve B.<br>1969 Elan S4
poiuyt
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 346
Joined: 23 Feb 2004

PostPost by: "Jeff at tiscali&quo » Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:25 am

I did the same but via an oil pressure switch, so car would fire, then
die when the oil pressure built, gave the impression that there was
something wrong with the fuel or ignition. Never had anyone try to nick
the car so not sure how effective it will be.
Regards
Jeff 72+2

Steve B wrote:

If you have points in the car, run a wire from the positive (hot)
side of the points through a switch to ground and hide the switch.
This puts ground on both sides of the points and there will never be
a spark.

Used this for 8 years on my old X1/9.

Steve B.


--- In ***@***.***, Steve Waterworth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Electronic immobilisers are of no use on an old Elan. All you have
to do
> is run a wire from the fuse box to the coil and you are ready to
go.
> Electronically a battery cut off is the only way to go. My car has
an
> electric fuel pump and I have thought about putting a hidden
switch in
> the circuit. It would allow the car to be started and driven a
couple of
> hundred yards before the float chambres emptied. I am sure the
theif
> would not want to hang about at the side of the road trying to
figure
> out what when wrong.
>
> Nigel Marston wrote:
> > I currently have a Caterham and as is the custom for the newer
cars (those
> > in the last 8 years or so) it has a removable steering wheel. It
does give a
> > great sense of security when we travel all over Europe during
the Summer (in
> > convoy - see http://www.badgerum.com/se7enstour/)
<http://www.badgerum.com/se7enstour/%29> but you do
feel a berk
> > when a crowd of you, all sporting little MOMO wheels in hand,
turn up at a
> > restaurant in the middle of the day.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some of the quick release mechanisms aren't very good either.
The wheel
> > never feels tight on the spline. Caterham fits a sprung type
which is
> > properly quick at releasing whereas I feel for a security-only
measure it is
> > more important that it fits tightly on the spline, even if it
takes 1 second
> > longer to get off. There was talk a while ago on the Se7ens list
> > (www.se7ens.net <http://www.se7ens.net/> ) of there being a
better QR
> > mechanism available but I can't find the details now. Worth
having a look at
> > Demon Tweaks if you have their catalogue (I don't have one to
hand).
> > Irritatingly, their web site doesn't show everything they stock.
> >
> >
> >
> > Other mechanisms include an FIA battery master key/switch. Any
similar FIA
> > key would fit any switch but the chances of a thief having one
to hand is
> > slight. Ultimately though some sort of electronic immobiliser
affords you
> > the best sense of security if you want to leave you car
unattended. We leave
> > Se7ens for short periods all over Europe, whether it be for
midday dinner or
> > overnight at various Hotels, and we've never (yet - crossed
fingers) had any
> > problems. Perhaps the Se7en is a less likely car to attract
unwanted
> > attention owing to the fact that it's pretty obvious to spot and
not very
> > easy to get into, but it doesn't stop owners worrying as you
guys are.
> >
> >
> >
> > Incidentally, I'm selling my Se7en and looking for a knackered
+2 for
> > renovation. I need extra seats for my new family. Wish me luck.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ***@***.***
[mailto:***@***.*** Behalf
> > Of steve_071
> > Sent: 08 July 2005 02:58
> > To: ***@***.***
> > Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Elan Anti Theft - Recommendations?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > At home I disconnect the battery as in Steve W's reply. I also
have
> > a six foot long case hardened chain which I wrap around the
chassis
> > and secure to an anchor plate in my garage floor with a case
hardened
> > lock. If nothing else it would slow thieves down.
> >
> > When I am out I don't let the car out of my sight :). Not quiet
that
> > drastic but mine is a weekend toy and doesn't get parked anywhere
> > bad. I have read about removable steering wheels in some of the
> > forums which I think would make it terribly difficult to take. I
> > think
> > the problem is you don't really need to drive an Elan to steal
it,
> > you
> > could just push it away :).
> >
> > The dog idea sounds good!
> >
> > Steve.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To search the mailing list archives:
> >
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html
> >
> > CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:
> > http://www.lotuselan.net/publish/legal_stuff.shtml
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >
> > * Visit your group "lotuselan
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lotuselan> " on the web.
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > ***@***.***
> > <mailto:***@***.***?
subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
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"Jeff at tiscali&quo
 

PostPost by: M100 » Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:42 am

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:41:06 +0100, Steve Waterworth
<***@***.***> wrote:

Electronic immobilisers are of no use on an old Elan.

With the right approach, namely careful selection and proper
integration they are. Without going into too many details on
specific wiring mine is immobilised via a proximity transponder on the
keyring - no button pressing to disarm, just get in the car turn the
key and drive. Try to do anything to the car without the transponder
being there and it triggers an alarm to a paging unit the size of a
matchbox I carry in my pocket. Total cost probably less than 150
quid, total weight less than half a pound. OK so its not 60's
technology but neither are the scum that pinch the cars.

Martin

72/45
--
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72 Sprint DHC
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PostPost by: guerrilla garage » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:46 pm

Around here the car thieves use a tow truck or a rollback, they just
winch it up on and haul it away. I imagine the serious ones use an
enclosed trailer with a winch in it. As for drunken youths out for a
joy ride, Corvettes and Mustangs are usually the targets of choice,
they'd have to be too wasted to drive to consider my Elan. I
typically put the ignition key in my pocket and don't worry about
it. Steve Foster Syracuse, NY
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PostPost by: poiuyt » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:08 pm

If they try to lift either end of the Elan that's all they'll get -
the end of the car.

Steve B.


--- In ***@***.***, "guerrilla1" <[email protected]> wrote:
Around here the car thieves use a tow truck...
Steve Foster Syracuse, NY
Steve B.<br>1969 Elan S4
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