Output drive shaft Plus 2
19 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Hi All,
I am close to finishing the restoration of the Plus 2.
While I was taking off the offside rear suspension, I noticed that the
drive shaft was loose fitting into the bearing, this was noticed after
taking the wheel hub off. Thinking that obviously the bearing must be
shot, I pressed the shaft out, re newed both inner and outer bearings.
Putting it back together I noticed with horror that the shaft is exactly
the same in the outer bearing!! I have taken a picture of the shaft and
uploaded to the picture gallery. My question is this, do other plus 2's
have the step ground in the shaft where the output bearing would sit?
The inner race of my bearing is right over that step. I have some fears
that some one (P.O.) has fitted the wrong shaft in the past. I know I
am looking at ?150 new to replace (ouch)
Kind regards
Jeff ( nearly rebuilt +2)
I am close to finishing the restoration of the Plus 2.
While I was taking off the offside rear suspension, I noticed that the
drive shaft was loose fitting into the bearing, this was noticed after
taking the wheel hub off. Thinking that obviously the bearing must be
shot, I pressed the shaft out, re newed both inner and outer bearings.
Putting it back together I noticed with horror that the shaft is exactly
the same in the outer bearing!! I have taken a picture of the shaft and
uploaded to the picture gallery. My question is this, do other plus 2's
have the step ground in the shaft where the output bearing would sit?
The inner race of my bearing is right over that step. I have some fears
that some one (P.O.) has fitted the wrong shaft in the past. I know I
am looking at ?150 new to replace (ouch)
Kind regards
Jeff ( nearly rebuilt +2)
-
jeff jackson - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 578
- Joined: 31 May 2004
Nice try, but nope. Happened to me, shaft us kaput. I too thought my bearings were going, but the grumbling was the exact failure you describe
----- Original Message -----
From: "***@***.***" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Output drive shaft Plus 2
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 15:50:06 +0100
--
_______________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "***@***.***" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Output drive shaft Plus 2
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 15:50:06 +0100
--
_______________________________________________
- "e s"
Oh noooooooooooo. are you saying that the step in the shaft is caused by
the bearing wearing it away?
I'm confused, because I bought a load of spares with the car and the
spare drive shaft is the same. Is it possible this was removed because
it too was worn by the bearing???
JJ
e s wrote:
the bearing wearing it away?
I'm confused, because I bought a load of spares with the car and the
spare drive shaft is the same. Is it possible this was removed because
it too was worn by the bearing???
JJ
e s wrote:
-
jeff jackson - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 578
- Joined: 31 May 2004
Just finished replacing both output shafts on my 69 Plus 2. One side
broke, so I replaced both sides with newer Sprint shafts (don't have
the step you describe as they were designed to handle more torque).
Replacing these as part of a resto with the half shafts off the car
is easy, but, alas...I had to remove them, replace the output shafts
and then put them back. Nice wrestling match with the shafts and
donuts, but once I figured out the proper sequence and had a tool to
compress the donuts, it went ok. I've posted the sequence in a
previous message if you need it.
steve
--- In ***@***.***, "e s" <stupidemail5@l...> wrote:
describe
broke, so I replaced both sides with newer Sprint shafts (don't have
the step you describe as they were designed to handle more torque).
Replacing these as part of a resto with the half shafts off the car
is easy, but, alas...I had to remove them, replace the output shafts
and then put them back. Nice wrestling match with the shafts and
donuts, but once I figured out the proper sequence and had a tool to
compress the donuts, it went ok. I've posted the sequence in a
previous message if you need it.
steve
--- In ***@***.***, "e s" <stupidemail5@l...> wrote:
describe
- nygroup
- First Gear
- Posts: 43
- Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Hi Jeff,
Does the step look the same surface finish as on the middle part of the
shaft ? I ask because usually any wear from a bearing race should be
significantly different from the original ground finish.
How much slop is evident, loads or just a thou or so ? If the difference is
minor, then you can use Loctite Bearing Fit to take up small gaps - not a
bodge but a noted procedure on the Europa rear hubs.
If the shaft is worn, then maybe you could get them rebuilt by metal
spraying, quite a common procedure on pump shafts, etc - I'd guess you'll
find a local firm in most towns. Usually this is cheaper, it's certainly
worth calling in with the shaft and asking someone.
cheers
Brian
Does the step look the same surface finish as on the middle part of the
shaft ? I ask because usually any wear from a bearing race should be
significantly different from the original ground finish.
How much slop is evident, loads or just a thou or so ? If the difference is
minor, then you can use Loctite Bearing Fit to take up small gaps - not a
bodge but a noted procedure on the Europa rear hubs.
If the shaft is worn, then maybe you could get them rebuilt by metal
spraying, quite a common procedure on pump shafts, etc - I'd guess you'll
find a local firm in most towns. Usually this is cheaper, it's certainly
worth calling in with the shaft and asking someone.
cheers
Brian
- BrianMartley
- Second Gear
- Posts: 54
- Joined: 13 Sep 2004
I would think this is possible. The bearing must press on the shaft, so a step is not possible.
Someone else here referencing a step was obviously referring to a diff output shaft, not an axle shaft.
And yse, it was smooth and polished like it was supposed to be there. Bearings is very hard
----- Original Message -----
From: "***@***.***" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Output drive shaft Plus 2
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:04:28 +0100
--
_______________________________________________
Someone else here referencing a step was obviously referring to a diff output shaft, not an axle shaft.
And yse, it was smooth and polished like it was supposed to be there. Bearings is very hard
----- Original Message -----
From: "***@***.***" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Output drive shaft Plus 2
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:04:28 +0100
--
_______________________________________________
- "e s"
Hi Brian,
The step is uniform, that's what threw me, it looked deliberate. I have
two shafts, one I hve just taken off, and one the PO took off. the PO
shaft is worn a lot less but without measuring them ( I left them at
work today) I can't say how much.
I was thinking of putting loads of weld on them and turning them down,
but I think there may be problems with making the shafts brittle with
the heat.
Any thing I decide will have to wait for a few weeks - off to FLA and
Vermont next week to be best man at a wedding!
Thanks for the tip on metal spraying... will follow that up.
Kind regards
Jeff
Brian wrote:
The step is uniform, that's what threw me, it looked deliberate. I have
two shafts, one I hve just taken off, and one the PO took off. the PO
shaft is worn a lot less but without measuring them ( I left them at
work today) I can't say how much.
I was thinking of putting loads of weld on them and turning them down,
but I think there may be problems with making the shafts brittle with
the heat.
Any thing I decide will have to wait for a few weeks - off to FLA and
Vermont next week to be best man at a wedding!
Thanks for the tip on metal spraying... will follow that up.
Kind regards
Jeff
Brian wrote:
-
jeff jackson - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 578
- Joined: 31 May 2004
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 15:50:06 +0100, "***@***.***"
<***@***.***> wrote:
My question is this, do other plus 2's
Assuming +2 and later 2 seat Elans (issue 18 uprights) are the same,
the hub location shaft taper runs into a parallel ground journal where
the outer bearing race fits, between the two bearings the shaft is
slightly undercut, at the inboard end there is another parallel ground
journal for the inner bearing slightly larger diameter than the
outboard one.
No doubt about it that shaft is well and truly knackered Jeff. Not
sure if I'd be happy running round with one that was recovered with
metal spraying though without a bit of NDT. Along with a few other
bits on the Elan it falls into the "Jesus Bolt" category.
Martin
72/45
--
<***@***.***> wrote:
My question is this, do other plus 2's
Assuming +2 and later 2 seat Elans (issue 18 uprights) are the same,
the hub location shaft taper runs into a parallel ground journal where
the outer bearing race fits, between the two bearings the shaft is
slightly undercut, at the inboard end there is another parallel ground
journal for the inner bearing slightly larger diameter than the
outboard one.
No doubt about it that shaft is well and truly knackered Jeff. Not
sure if I'd be happy running round with one that was recovered with
metal spraying though without a bit of NDT. Along with a few other
bits on the Elan it falls into the "Jesus Bolt" category.
Martin
72/45
--
Martin
72 Sprint DHC
72 Sprint DHC
-
M100 - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 761
- Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Hi Martin,
Not sure what NDT and Jesus Bolt are, but I get your drift.
My Elan is going nowhere. I promised my wife faithfully that the ?3K I
have just spent on the restoration of "that knackered old car of yours"
was the end of it. I don't know how I'm going to hide ?155 + VAT +
delivery from her.
Maybe the metal spraying option would be a "stop gap" solution?
Kind regards
Jeff
Martin Evans wrote:
Not sure what NDT and Jesus Bolt are, but I get your drift.
My Elan is going nowhere. I promised my wife faithfully that the ?3K I
have just spent on the restoration of "that knackered old car of yours"
was the end of it. I don't know how I'm going to hide ?155 + VAT +
delivery from her.
Maybe the metal spraying option would be a "stop gap" solution?
Kind regards
Jeff
Martin Evans wrote:
-
jeff jackson - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 578
- Joined: 31 May 2004
Jeff
Give spyder a ring I am sure they have plenty of second-hand good useable shafts in stock
(01733 203986)
John
"***@***.***" <***@***.***> wrote:
Hi Martin,
Not sure what NDT and Jesus Bolt are, but I get your drift.
My Elan is going nowhere. I promised my wife faithfully that the ?3K I
have just spent on the restoration of "that knackered old car of yours"
was the end of it. I don't know how I'm going to hide ?155 + VAT +
delivery from her.
Maybe the metal spraying option would be a "stop gap" solution?
Kind regards
Jeff
Martin Evans wrote:
Give spyder a ring I am sure they have plenty of second-hand good useable shafts in stock
(01733 203986)
John
"***@***.***" <***@***.***> wrote:
Hi Martin,
Not sure what NDT and Jesus Bolt are, but I get your drift.
My Elan is going nowhere. I promised my wife faithfully that the ?3K I
have just spent on the restoration of "that knackered old car of yours"
was the end of it. I don't know how I'm going to hide ?155 + VAT +
delivery from her.
Maybe the metal spraying option would be a "stop gap" solution?
Kind regards
Jeff
Martin Evans wrote:
-
john.p.clegg - Coveted Fifth Gear
- Posts: 5744
- Joined: 21 Sep 2003
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:49:30 +0100, "***@***.***"
<***@***.***> wrote:
NDT - non destructive testing to see if the repaired part is ok to
detect cracks or flaws in the weld etc.
Usually with dye penetrant (on aluminium), or magnetic particles on
ferrous materials (magnaflux) If the budget is a bit higher or you
have access to a race team/industrial facility then you could use
ultrasonics or x-rays which can pick up deeper flaws.
Jesus Bolt - the single bolt in the middle holding a hang glider
together, if it catastrophically fails, as some did in the early days,
"Jesus" was one word that came to mind
It might be a long term solution but I know I'd be happier with a new
one in such a critical area. As for hiding the purchase then surely
that's what delivery to work or a mates house is for?
Martin
72/45
--
<***@***.***> wrote:
NDT - non destructive testing to see if the repaired part is ok to
detect cracks or flaws in the weld etc.
Usually with dye penetrant (on aluminium), or magnetic particles on
ferrous materials (magnaflux) If the budget is a bit higher or you
have access to a race team/industrial facility then you could use
ultrasonics or x-rays which can pick up deeper flaws.
Jesus Bolt - the single bolt in the middle holding a hang glider
together, if it catastrophically fails, as some did in the early days,
"Jesus" was one word that came to mind
It might be a long term solution but I know I'd be happier with a new
one in such a critical area. As for hiding the purchase then surely
that's what delivery to work or a mates house is for?
Martin
72/45
--
Martin
72 Sprint DHC
72 Sprint DHC
-
M100 - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 761
- Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Thanks John,
I'll ring them tomorrow.
Jeff
JOHN CLEGG wrote:
I'll ring them tomorrow.
Jeff
JOHN CLEGG wrote:
-
jeff jackson - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 578
- Joined: 31 May 2004
I also believe the term was earlier applied to big nut which retains
a helicopter's main rotor to it's shaft, the Jesus nut. For the
exact same reason as stated below. Failure is catastrophic.
Mike G
--- In ***@***.***, Martin Evans <mcemail@d...> wrote:
a helicopter's main rotor to it's shaft, the Jesus nut. For the
exact same reason as stated below. Failure is catastrophic.
Mike G
--- In ***@***.***, Martin Evans <mcemail@d...> wrote:
Mike Geiger
66 S3 Coupe', no more
66 S3 Coupe', no more
-
type36lotus - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 564
- Joined: 17 Sep 2003
It is a very common engineering procedure to hard chrome plate undersize
shafts oversize and then grind to size.
We use the technique a lot when someone drops a clanger and provided the
bearing balls or needles do not run directly on the shaft, for example in
the gearbox.
If you are interested, I could find you the name of the company which would
do the operation.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Sent: 27 June 2005 20:56
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Output drive shaft Plus 2
Thanks John,
I'll ring them tomorrow.
Jeff
JOHN CLEGG wrote:
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the
confidential use of the above named recipient. If you are not the intended
recipient or person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient,
you have received this communication in error and must not distribute or
copy it. Please accept the sender's apologies, notify the sender immediately
by return e-mail and delete this communication. Thank you.
shafts oversize and then grind to size.
We use the technique a lot when someone drops a clanger and provided the
bearing balls or needles do not run directly on the shaft, for example in
the gearbox.
If you are interested, I could find you the name of the company which would
do the operation.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Sent: 27 June 2005 20:56
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Output drive shaft Plus 2
Thanks John,
I'll ring them tomorrow.
Jeff
JOHN CLEGG wrote:
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the
confidential use of the above named recipient. If you are not the intended
recipient or person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient,
you have received this communication in error and must not distribute or
copy it. Please accept the sender's apologies, notify the sender immediately
by return e-mail and delete this communication. Thank you.
- davidallen
- Third Gear
- Posts: 292
- Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Hi David,
That would be most helpful.
Regards
Jeff.
ALLEN, David wrote:
That would be most helpful.
Regards
Jeff.
ALLEN, David wrote:
-
jeff jackson - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 578
- Joined: 31 May 2004
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