Lotus Elan

S4 Door Adjustment

PostPost by: "collins_dan2000&quo » Wed May 25, 2005 2:55 pm

Like many S4's, the trailing edge of my doors are out of alignment. On
the following website (http://www.seanet.com/~rsfehr/elan.html), this
Seattle-based restorer refers to a "door surgery" procedure that he
does to bring the doors in alignment without affecting the outer door
skin. I've emailed him to ask for his "secret", but have not received
a reply. Anyone have any ideas what he is referring to? Thanks.

Dan '70 S4 SE
Baltimore, MD
"collins_dan2000&quo
 

PostPost by: "collins_dan2000&quo » Wed May 25, 2005 3:35 pm

Just heard from Randall... his solution involves cutting apart the
inner and outer skin and rebonding. Any solutions out there that are
less invasive, perhaps modifying the hinge assembly instead of the
door?...

Thanks. Dan



--- In ***@***.***, "collins_dan2000" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Like many S4's, the trailing edge of my doors are out of alignment.
On

the following website (http://www.seanet.com/~rsfehr/elan.html),
this

Seattle-based restorer refers to a "door surgery" procedure that he
does to bring the doors in alignment without affecting the outer
door

skin. I've emailed him to ask for his "secret", but have not
received

a reply. Anyone have any ideas what he is referring to? Thanks.

Dan '70 S4 SE
Baltimore, MD
"collins_dan2000&quo
 

PostPost by: poiuyt » Wed May 25, 2005 5:47 pm

Leave them alone and tell everyone they are aerodynamic devices used to
improve directional stability.

My '69 has the same problem and I found the best solution is not to
look at the doors.

Steve B.




--- In ***@***.***, "collins_dan2000" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Like many S4's, the trailing edge of my doors are out of alignment.
On

the following website (http://www.seanet.com/~rsfehr/elan.html), this
Seattle-based restorer refers to a "door surgery" procedure that he
does to bring the doors in alignment without affecting the outer door
skin. I've emailed him to ask for his "secret", but have not received
a reply. Anyone have any ideas what he is referring to? Thanks.

Dan '70 S4 SE
Baltimore, MD
Steve B.<br>1969 Elan S4
poiuyt
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 346
Joined: 23 Feb 2004

PostPost by: tvacc » Wed May 25, 2005 5:52 pm

I beleive this was done to my Elan Sprint that Bill Rabel bought from
me...and I then I bought back. Doors fit great now (did not when I sold it
to him)...and Bill lives in Seattle.

Bill told me it has turnbuckles in the doors...but I have not checked it
out..nor will I as the car is sold and being picked up on Monday.

Doors do fit nice!!!!

Tony V
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
User avatar
tvacc
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Location: Buffalo NY

PostPost by: "nebogipfel2004" » Wed May 25, 2005 7:03 pm

Dan,

Mick Miller (UK) improved the fit of doors by cutting the lower corner
of the shut edge of the door so that the corner can actually be
squeezed in a bit and then re-glassed.

I assume quite a narrow cut around the corner and along the bottom of
the door would acheive the desired result. It would not need to be too
close to the door skin and would be fairly easy to repair afterwards.

I can't really think of a less invasive method. The problem isn't
adjustment it is the shape of the door.

I have heard of folk building the rear wing and sill up to meet the
door but that just sounds like a bodge to me ..... and a lot of work!

John
"nebogipfel2004"
 

PostPost by: dougweall » Wed May 25, 2005 7:29 pm

Like many S4's, the trailing edge of my doors are out of alignment. On
the following website (http://www.seanet.com/~rsfehr/elan.html), this
Seattle-based restorer refers to a "door surgery" procedure that he
does to bring the doors in alignment without affecting the outer door
skin. I've emailed him to ask for his "secret", but have not received
a reply. Anyone have any ideas what he is referring to? Thanks.

Dan '70 S4 SE
Baltimore, MD







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http://www.lotuselan.net/publish/legal_stuff.shtml




.


Dan,

Had my Elan bodywork repaired/sorted at Europa Engineering (GB) last year,
when I remarked ?how nice a fit the doors were, knowing the problems we
have? the guy who did all the glass work told me he had cut the doors in an
elongated vee shape between the inner and outer skins (obviously this would
extend quite a long way down the underside of the door) and pulled them
nicely into position, then reglassed the whole section again. If you think
about it the outer door skin bottom will probably be very slightly out at
the front so a long cut is what is needed.

It?s obviously something this guy has perfected over the years.

Hope this helps,

Doug
User avatar
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Third Gear
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Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Darfield, S.Yorkshire

PostPost by: mikecauser » Wed May 25, 2005 7:43 pm

On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:34:24 -0000 "collins_dan2000" <***@***.***> wrote:

Just heard from Randall... his solution involves cutting apart the
inner and outer skin and rebonding.

That's how Peter Day does it too.



Mike
--
Mike Causer Email - mailto:***@***.***
GPG KeyID 1C2DDA07 WWW - http://www.mikecauser.com
Flood the fen again! - Wicken Fen enlargement - http://www.wicken.org.uk
mikecauser
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PostPost by: "Lee Levey" » Thu May 26, 2005 11:42 am

I had this surgical procedure done to my 64 S1 after a complete body and
paint restoration. The shop claimed that the right door must have
warped, even though it fit perfectly before the work was done.
Considerable manipulation of the door on the hinges was attempted with
no success. The door was sectioned, rebonded and repainted with the
result being a perfect fit. The only real damage was to my wallet.

Lee Levey

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Mike Causer
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 3:43 PM
To: ***@***.***
Cc: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: S4 Door Adjustment

On Wed, 25 May 2005 15:34:24 -0000 "collins_dan2000"
<***@***.***> wrote:

Just heard from Randall... his solution involves cutting apart the
inner and outer skin and rebonding.

That's how Peter Day does it too.



Mike
--
Mike Causer Email - mailto:***@***.***
GPG KeyID 1C2DDA07 WWW - http://www.mikecauser.com
Flood the fen again! - Wicken Fen enlargement - http://www.wicken.org.uk





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CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:




_____
Service.
"Lee Levey"
 

PostPost by: Will Grainger » Thu May 26, 2005 12:49 pm

Dan,

Here's a posting from Randall Fehr from a few years ago. Good luck.

-Will Grainger
1970 S4
45/9693


Message 70 of 17313
From: Randall Fehr <***@***.***
Date: Thu Jun 24, 1999 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: Door Gaps and new material on LotusElan.net

My information about the door molding problem came from Ron Hickman (Lotus
chief designer at the time). He and Hickman were discussing body
differences through the series and one of his anecdotes was that
several sets of door molds had been made for S3-S4 production but
somehow most of them were lost or mistakenly destroyed. Those that
remained produced imperfectly-fitting doors.

However, this does not explain how the doors came out ill-fitting. It
seemed to me that the problem could arise through inaccurate jigging for
the wet bond of the door shell halves. Several years ago I had restored my
Elan S3 without addressing this problem because I could only see
approaching it much as Brian Walton describes, and decided it was too
complicated and risky for me to attempt at that time.

My new theory resulted in a technique for improving the door fit without
touching the outer shell at all - no repainting is required.


The procedure:

1. Remove latch components, window motor and frame.
2. Separate the door shell halves by cutting the bonding flange where they
were mated originally. Use a coping saw, hacksaw blade, and/or very thin
power cutting wheel. Cut carefully through the center of the flange in an
attempt to leave half the thickness on each shell. Start at the top rear
and cut around to approximately the front bottom corner. Patience required...
3. The door will be floppy at this point. Twist it and clamp the flanges
together in a new position that gives good panel fit all around. Some
readjustment of the hinges may also be required. Use pop rivets or sheet
metal screws through the flange - just one or two will do for trials. When
final position is determined, drill for a few more rivets or screws but
don't install yet.
4. Temporarily refit window frame. Some re-shimming of the frame to the
inside of the door shell may be required for proper fit to the top and
windscreen pillar. Some trimming of the top of the door may also be
required. Or readjustment of flange position.
5. Mix up resin and prepare strips of glass strand mat (or alternatively a
good fiberglass adhesive) for re-bonding the flange. Spread it apart, apply
the resin and mat on the flange mating surfaces and clamp together with
rivets or screws, supplemented if necessary by spring clamps or even
clothespins.
6. When cured, remove or grind off rivets or screws, trim excess bonding
agent, clean, and reassemble. Some paint touch-up may be called for on the
flange edge and where holes were drilled.


Randall
Randall Fehr Restorations
Seattle

Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 14:54:05 -0000
From: "collins_dan2000" <***@***.***>
Subject: S4 Door Adjustment

Like many S4's, the trailing edge of my doors are out of alignment. On
the following website (http://www.seanet.com/~rsfehr/elan.html), this
Seattle-based restorer refers to a "door surgery" procedure that he
does to bring the doors in alignment without affecting the outer door
skin. I've emailed him to ask for his "secret", but have not received
a reply. Anyone have any ideas what he is referring to? Thanks.

Dan '70 S4 SE
Baltimore, MD
Will Grainger
 

PostPost by: "Tim" » Fri May 27, 2005 4:27 pm

One thing that I noticed when I re-did my S4 was
that the door fit perfectly - until I installed
the weather stripping. The replacement weather
stripping was thicker and firmer than the original,
and caused my doors to bulge out at the rear,
just like all the others.

If we could find original weather stripping, it
might help the problem considerably.

Tim Mullen
"Tim"
 

PostPost by: "collins_dan2000&quo » Tue May 31, 2005 1:27 pm

Tim, You are exactly right! I took the weather stripping off my doors
as a test. My drivers door was perfect. My passengers door needs some
adjustment, but seems minor. Now the question is where to find
weatherstripping that is similar to the original. Much thinner than
replacement. Any ideas out there? Thanks. Dan






--- In ***@***.***, "Tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
One thing that I noticed when I re-did my S4 was
that the door fit perfectly - until I installed
the weather stripping. The replacement weather
stripping was thicker and firmer than the original,
and caused my doors to bulge out at the rear,
just like all the others.

If we could find original weather stripping, it
might help the problem considerably.

Tim Mullen
"collins_dan2000&quo
 

PostPost by: Harald S. Feeß » Tue May 31, 2005 4:22 pm

That?s my experience too.
Tried weatherstrips from Paul Matty and from the highly recommended
MacGregor ("Martin J. MacGregor" <***@***.***>)
but they all delivered the wrong type.

Here is Martin?s reply from december 2002:

Harald, Hello and thankyou for your enquiry. Our black
vinyl and rubber replacement doorseals for your Elan fhc
fit perfectly and look superb. We specialize in weather-
strips for all British, and many Euro , cars. Much effort
to match or exceed the originals ensures that our products
are always the best.
We have put to one side a pair of these doorseals for your car and costs are
:- $97.00 Canadian
Surface post & pack $25.00
Total $122.00

If air post is required the total is $142.00 Canadian.
We are pleased to accept Visa as payment. You can
phone us or fax details on 905-627-4006. We stock
many other correct seals for your car. Thankyou.
With regards, Martin.

I can?t understand these difficulties in finding the correct type of seals.
Unfortunately I don?t have the original seals any more.
So it would be a great help if someone of you with the original doorseals
could send me a fax (No. 0049 89 61 44 04 91) with a stamp of the end of the
seal.

Harry
Munich, Germany
71 Elan Sprint fhc rhd



Tim, You are exactly right! I took the weather stripping off my doors
as a test. My drivers door was perfect. My passengers door needs some
adjustment, but seems minor. Now the question is where to find
weatherstripping that is similar to the original. Much thinner than
replacement. Any ideas out there? Thanks. Dan






--- In ***@***.***, "Tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
> One thing that I noticed when I re-did my S4 was
> that the door fit perfectly - until I installed
> the weather stripping. The replacement weather
> stripping was thicker and firmer than the original,
> and caused my doors to bulge out at the rear,
> just like all the others.
>
> If we could find original weather stripping, it
> might help the problem considerably.
>
> Tim Mullen








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Harald S. Feeß
 

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