Lotus Elan

Two questions for S1/2 owners

PostPost by: mikecauser » Mon May 16, 2005 6:25 pm

You may remember a discussion last November about black badges & what I
found in a survey of magazine road tests? Well, we're back again, but
this time looking at the transition from the Elite-style badge to the
Elan's. The Elite-14 group have been really great at getting into
their garages and reporting what they have on their cars, and I am
hoping that with the help of Elan S1 owners we can really pin it down.

I have two questions:

On any Elan S1 or S2 does the nose badge have letters that are raised
above the surface of the coloured enamel?

and, does anyone have a very, very early parts list where the part
numbers are of the form 026B0269 rather than X026B0269Z, and what date
(if poss) is it?


There is a presentation of what I know about Lotus nose badges from 1953
to 2005, with illustrations, at
<http://www.mikecauser.com/lotus/parts/badges.html>


Cheers,

Mike
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PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Mon May 16, 2005 7:05 pm

Mike,

I have a photo copy of a S1 parts book, no good at all for collecting value, but good for information. I'll look tonight for the date.

I also have a photocopy of the excellent S1,S2 & Coupe book here at my desk. It lists the badge as simply 26 B 269 and the 2 BA nuts and washers are listed separately. Lotus didn't add the extra zeros into the part number until the latter prefix/ suffix came along.

Since the Coupe is covered, this would have to be around 1965, yet I see nodate anywhere on it. The book was too early to show the airflow vented style, which I don't think came along until at least very late '66 or even '67.

Some interesting side comments: There is only a RHD and LHD dash listed forthe S1 and S2. No difference in them between series. On the Coupe door page, there is a note about the first 100 FHC having the window switches in the doors, yet again on the dash page, there is no differentiation between door mounted or dash mounted switch type dashes, just 2 numbers for RHD and LHD.

Another interesting nose badge variant is the painted badge. I think I've seen them on S2s and my 36-5526 FHC has one, along w/ the bumpers which haveanother molded backplate inside the bumper but no foam fill.

Roger

>> ***@***.*** 5/16/05 2:25:10 PM >>>
You may remember a discussion last November about black badges & what I

found in a survey of magazine road tests? Well, we're back again, but
this time looking at the transition from the Elite-style badge to the
Elan's. The Elite-14 group have been really great at getting into
their garages and reporting what they have on their cars, and I am
hoping that with the help of Elan S1 owners we can really pin it down.

I have two questions:

On any Elan S1 or S2 does the nose badge have letters that are raised
above the surface of the coloured enamel?

and, does anyone have a very, very early parts list where the part
numbers are of the form 026B0269 rather than X026B0269Z, and what date
(if poss) is it?


There is a presentation of what I know about Lotus nose badges from 1953
to 2005, with illustrations, at
<http://www.mikecauser.com/lotus/parts/badges.html>


Cheers,

Mike
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To search the mailing list archives:
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PostPost by: M100 » Mon May 16, 2005 7:36 pm

On Mon, 16 May 2005 19:25:10 +0100, Mike Causer <***@***.***>
wrote:

and, does anyone have a very, very early parts list where the part
numbers are of the form 026B0269 rather than X026B0269Z, and what date
(if poss) is it?

Not very,very, early but the S1/S2/Coupe parts lists shows the badge
as part number 026B0269 - and has a copyright date of 1966. The front
page says world champions 1963 1965 with the Cheshunt address. You
can grab a pdf of this early parts list at
www.lotusfaq.org//Elan/Documents/Elan_S ... tslist.pdf

The early service manual should have also been online a couple of
months ago but a hard disk crash took out a lot of the work that had
been done.

Martin

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PostPost by: mikecauser » Mon May 16, 2005 8:02 pm

On Mon, 16 May 2005 15:05:29 -0400 "Roger Sieling" <***@***.***> wrote:

I have a photo copy of a S1 parts book, no good at all for collecting
value,

Oh, in that case I'll give you a pint of beer for it.


Some interesting side comments: There is only a RHD and LHD dash
listed for the S1 and S2. No difference in them between series. On the
Coupe door page, there is a note about the first 100 FHC having the
window switches in the doors, yet again on the dash page, there is no
differentiation between door mounted or dash mounted switch type
dashes, just 2 numbers for RHD and LHD.

A day visit I paid to the Lotus graphics department in 1989 might
provide an answer -- think of the Mushroom Principle....


Another interesting nose badge variant is the painted badge. I think
I've seen them on S2s and my 36-5526 FHC has one, along w/ the bumpers
which have another molded backplate inside the bumper but no foam
fill.

Bingo! Really??? BTW, what I was calling the "painted badge" last
week is now "raised letters, but enameled".


Mike
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PostPost by: Fred Talmadge » Mon May 16, 2005 11:44 pm

Here's a (not very good) pic http://96trees.com/lotus/S2badge.jpg of my
badge from my 1965 S2 It is the enameled badge where the enamel is filled
in between the raised letters.

My "Service Parts List" I got from the dealer in 1976 and has a part number
itself of X036T0325H (Hey how do you look up the part number of the manual
if you don't have the manual and if you have the manual why would you need
the part number?) Back to the subject the badge for ALL models is shown as
part number 026 B 0269


At 01:38 PM 5/16/2005 -0500, Fred Talmadge wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.***
Behalf Of Mike Causer
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 1:25 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Two questions for S1/2 owners


You may remember a discussion last November about black badges & what I
found in a survey of magazine road tests? Well, we're back again, but
this time looking at the transition from the Elite-style badge to the
Elan's. The Elite-14 group have been really great at getting into
their garages and reporting what they have on their cars, and I am
hoping that with the help of Elan S1 owners we can really pin it down.

I have two questions:

On any Elan S1 or S2 does the nose badge have letters that are raised
above the surface of the coloured enamel?

and, does anyone have a very, very early parts list where the part
numbers are of the form 026B0269 rather than X026B0269Z, and what date
(if poss) is it?


There is a presentation of what I know about Lotus nose badges from 1953
to 2005, with illustrations, at
<http://www.mikecauser.com/lotus/parts/badges.html>


Cheers,

Mike
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Flood the fen again! - Wicken Fen enlargement - http://www.wicken.org.uk

Fred Talmadge
 

PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Tue May 17, 2005 1:40 am

Mike,
I thought about removing it from the car and installing it on either the
Eleven or 20/22, but it has to be original to the FHC. It's been a good
while since I've seen it. The car is stored at a friend's barn. Looks
sorta like paint, but it may be very thin enamel. It is rubbed through
to chrome in places.

BTW, I thought everyone agreed months ago that the black badge of 1968
was introduced before Jim Clark's death and therefore it is a misnomer
to call it a Clark memorial badge. Remember that the horn push button
went to black by at least 1967. It had to be a cost thing. Chapman was
just plain cheap!

Roger

>> Mike Causer <***@***.***> 05/16/05 4:02 PM >>>
On Mon, 16 May 2005 15:05:29 -0400 "Roger Sieling"

<***@***.***> wrote:

I have a photo copy of a S1 parts book, no good at all for collecting
value,

Oh, in that case I'll give you a pint of beer for it.


Some interesting side comments: There is only a RHD and LHD dash
listed for the S1 and S2. No difference in them between series. On the
Coupe door page, there is a note about the first 100 FHC having the
window switches in the doors, yet again on the dash page, there is no
differentiation between door mounted or dash mounted switch type
dashes, just 2 numbers for RHD and LHD.

A day visit I paid to the Lotus graphics department in 1989 might
provide an answer -- think of the Mushroom Principle....


Another interesting nose badge variant is the painted badge. I think
I've seen them on S2s and my 36-5526 FHC has one, along w/ the bumpers
which have another molded backplate inside the bumper but no foam
fill.

Bingo! Really??? BTW, what I was calling the "painted badge" last
week is now "raised letters, but enameled".


Mike
--
Mike Causer Email - mailto:***@***.***
GPG KeyID 1C2DDA07 WWW - http://www.mikecauser.com
Flood the fen again! - Wicken Fen enlargement - http://www.wicken.org.uk



**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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www.mimesweeper.com
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"Roger Sieling"
 

PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Tue May 17, 2005 1:44 am

I could try to recopy it for a pint if you need one.

Roger

>> Mike Causer <***@***.***> 05/16/05 4:02 PM >>>
On Mon, 16 May 2005 15:05:29 -0400 "Roger Sieling"

<***@***.***> wrote:

I have a photo copy of a S1 parts book, no good at all for collecting
value,

Oh, in that case I'll give you a pint of beer for it.


Some interesting side comments: There is only a RHD and LHD dash
listed for the S1 and S2. No difference in them between series. On the
Coupe door page, there is a note about the first 100 FHC having the
window switches in the doors, yet again on the dash page, there is no
differentiation between door mounted or dash mounted switch type
dashes, just 2 numbers for RHD and LHD.

A day visit I paid to the Lotus graphics department in 1989 might
provide an answer -- think of the Mushroom Principle....


Another interesting nose badge variant is the painted badge. I think
I've seen them on S2s and my 36-5526 FHC has one, along w/ the bumpers
which have another molded backplate inside the bumper but no foam
fill.

Bingo! Really??? BTW, what I was calling the "painted badge" last
week is now "raised letters, but enameled".


Mike
--
Mike Causer Email - mailto:***@***.***
GPG KeyID 1C2DDA07 WWW - http://www.mikecauser.com
Flood the fen again! - Wicken Fen enlargement - http://www.wicken.org.uk



**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mimesweeper.com
**********************************************************************
"Roger Sieling"
 

PostPost by: dlbarnes1 » Tue May 17, 2005 4:25 am

Mike - Interesting presentation on nose badges.
I would like to mention that when replacing the vitreous enameled nose badge, take care not to overly tighten the nuts or the new badge will look likethe replaced badge (the enamel is brittle).
David 72 Sprint DHC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Causer
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 11:25 AM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Two questions for S1/2 owners


You may remember a discussion last November about black badges & what I
found in a survey of magazine road tests? Well, we're back again, but
this time looking at the transition from the Elite-style badge to the
Elan's. The Elite-14 group have been really great at getting into
their garages and reporting what they have on their cars, and I am
hoping that with the help of Elan S1 owners we can really pin it down.

I have two questions:

On any Elan S1 or S2 does the nose badge have letters that are raised
above the surface of the coloured enamel?

and, does anyone have a very, very early parts list where the part
numbers are of the form 026B0269 rather than X026B0269Z, and what date
(if poss) is it?


There is a presentation of what I know about Lotus nose badges from 1953
to 2005, with illustrations, at
<http://www.mikecauser.com/lotus/parts/badges.html>


Cheers,

Mike
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Flood the fen again! - Wicken Fen enlargement - http://www.wicken.org.uk





To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html






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PostPost by: mikecauser » Tue May 17, 2005 11:27 am

On Mon, 16 May 2005 21:40:22 -0400 "Roger Sieling" <***@***.***> wrote:

BTW, I thought everyone agreed months ago that the black badge of 1968
was introduced before Jim Clark's death and therefore it is a misnomer
to call it a Clark memorial badge.

I haven't seen any evidence that there was more than just the one black
badge _before_ Clark's death, but lots of them afterwards. It may have
been that this got Chapman to agree to Graham Arnold's liking for black,
but would Chapman have given in without it?


Remember that the horn push button went to black by at least 1967.

That was in 1966, a couple of years before the black nose badges.


It had to be a cost thing. Chapman was just plain cheap!

So cheap that he had a Lotus engine rather than just using something
from the Ford production line? So cheap that he had new seats built on
Triumph Herald frames instead of using the Herald seat entirely? So
cheap that he had final-drive casing and struts cast & machined instead
of using a readily available Ford axle? So cheap that he fitted disk
brakes all round? So cheap that he fitted electric windows at a time
that very few other cars had them?

That badge was on the F1 championship cars, it carried Chapman's
initials, it was instantly recognisable world-wide. Why would he have
changed it to be cheap? Yes I know that someone later, probably Graham
Arnold, said at a LOG it was because Chapman wanted a different colour,
and that it also happened to be cheaper. Well don't forget that Graham
had been pushing for black as a production colour for some time, so we
know he would have been keen. We also know that Graham loved to make up
"interesting" stories, and that he freely admitted that he put
inaccuracies into things he wrote so that he could tell when his work
had been copied later. Graham's word alone is not reliable.

If anyone wanted a cheap badge it would have been plastic, like a Ford
or an Austin. Not metal with chrome plating and baked enamel.

Sorry, I don't agree with the "cheap" argument.



Mike
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Wed May 18, 2005 8:30 am

Mike Causer wrote:

You may remember a discussion last November about black badges & what I
found in a survey of magazine road tests? Well, we're back again, but
this time looking at the transition from the Elite-style badge to the
Elan's. The Elite-14 group have been really great at getting into
their garages and reporting what they have on their cars, and I am
hoping that with the help of Elan S1 owners we can really pin it down.

I have two questions:

On any Elan S1 or S2 does the nose badge have letters that are raised
above the surface of the coloured enamel?

and, does anyone have a very, very early parts list where the part
numbers are of the form 026B0269 rather than X026B0269Z, and what date
(if poss) is it?


There is a presentation of what I know about Lotus nose badges from 1953
to 2005, with illustrations, at
<http://www.mikecauser.com/lotus/parts/badges.html>


Cheers,

Mike

Mike,
Apologies if anyone has already posted a reply similar to this (I've had
one of the accidental email-deletion moments!). I think that you are
missing a badge; from about 1974 the script of the green/yellow badge
was changed from the "parallel" letters shown to something like the
letters shown in your last example of the green/yellow one.

Cheers,
Pete.
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PostPost by: mikecauser » Wed May 18, 2005 9:26 am

On Wed, 18 May 2005 09:30:28 +0100 Pete Taylor <***@***.***> wrote:

Apologies if anyone has already posted a reply similar to this (I've
had one of the accidental email-deletion moments!). I think that you
are missing a badge; from about 1974 the script of the green/yellow
badge was changed from the "parallel" letters shown to something like
the letters shown in your last example of the green/yellow one.

Do you mean "serifed" letters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typeface)?
Lotus have frequently used serifed letters on printed media, such as
letterheads, brochures and manuals. But a serifed badge on a car on the
1970s is news to me. Do you have a photograph?


Mike
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