Lotus Elan

Water Pump Timming Chain

PostPost by: conor1_ie » Tue May 10, 2005 9:53 am

I'm trying to change the water pump and have got as far as lifting the
head. how will it pull off with the timming chain still around the
crankshaft.
conor1_ie
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PostPost by: triumphelan » Tue May 10, 2005 11:18 am

It will not ,remove the cam sprokets ,tie a piece of wire arround the chain,to stop it falling down.The chain should?? be one piece ie no link ,if ithas a link junk it and get a new one ,I would always fit a new chain
Regards John S41969 DHC
----- Original Message -----
From: conor1_ie
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Water Pump Timming Chain


I'm trying to change the water pump and have got as far as lifting the
head. how will it pull off with the timming chain still around the
crankshaft.







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PostPost by: "Sean Murray" » Tue May 10, 2005 12:47 pm

Hi Conor,

Nice to see you're still Lotusing !

If you are asking this question, I am thinking you don't have a workshop manual ?

Are you rebuilding the pump in the old front cover , or using a new front cover with removeable pump unit ?

You need to be careful removing /replacing the head on a TC. Two people I know not too far from you reassembled incorrectly and wrecked their engines on start up.

To remove the head, you need to set the engine and cams in TDC position. There should be two marks on the cam sprockets which line up with the top of the head. Fully loosen the chain tensioner. Remove the cam sprockets, and let the chain drop. You will need to remove and retime the distributor when reassembling, as the timing will have been lost. Double check the marks on the sprockets and crank tdc when before and after when reassembling, you may not get it right first time. Be aware that if you rotate the engine backways with the chain tensioner slack, the chain can slip over the teeth on the crank sprocket.

When you have everything back together, rotate the engine by hand to make sure all is ok before firing up !

We're off to Denmark and Sweden in the Plus Two shortly on this year's Euroclassic, I hope to get in touch when we get back, maybe organise a Lotus meeting south of the border !

Sean Murray
----- Original Message -----
From: conor1_ie
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Water Pump Timming Chain


I'm trying to change the water pump and have got as far as lifting the
head. how will it pull off with the timming chain still around the
crankshaft.
"Sean Murray"
 

PostPost by: conor1_ie » Tue May 10, 2005 2:11 pm

Hi Sean,
I have the Brooklands owners manual. In that it says that the front
cover can be removed without lifting the head which i can,t.I have
ordered a water pump kit from Christopher Neil it should be on the
way.
Of course I forgot to order all the seals.
A Job that started by just welding a part of the chassis led to new
front hub bearings and now this, why do we bother.
Thanks for the help.

Hi Conor,

Nice to see you're still Lotusing !

If you are asking this question, I am thinking you don't have a
workshop manual ?


Are you rebuilding the pump in the old front cover , or using a new
front cover with removeable pump unit ?


You need to be careful removing /replacing the head on a TC. Two
people I know not too far from you reassembled incorrectly and

wrecked their engines on start up.

To remove the head, you need to set the engine and cams in TDC
position. There should be two marks on the cam sprockets which line

up with the top of the head. Fully loosen the chain tensioner.
Remove the cam sprockets, and let the chain drop. You will need to
remove and retime the distributor when reassembling, as the timing
will have been lost. Double check the marks on the sprockets and
crank tdc when before and after when reassembling, you may not get
it right first time. Be aware that if you rotate the engine backways
with the chain tensioner slack, the chain can slip over the teeth on
the crank sprocket.

When you have everything back together, rotate the engine by hand
to make sure all is ok before firing up !


We're off to Denmark and Sweden in the Plus Two shortly on this
year's Euroclassic, I hope to get in touch when we get back, maybe

organise a Lotus meeting south of the border !

Sean Murray
----- Original Message -----
From: conor1_ie
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Water Pump Timming Chain


I'm trying to change the water pump and have got as far as
lifting the

head. how will it pull off with the timming chain still around
the

crankshaft.


conor1_ie
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Posts: 20
Joined: 09 Mar 2004

PostPost by: steveww » Tue May 10, 2005 5:36 pm

I have just finished the same job this winter. I am not sure if you say
you have already lifted the head?

The timing chain will need to come off before lifting the head. Put the
engine at 90 degrees BTDC this way the pistons are half way down the
bores and well away from the valves. Take off the cam sprokets, put a
bit of wire around the chain to stop it disappearing in to the sump.

Undo all the from cover bolts and gently prise off the front cover. It
will not want to come off but gentle persistance should work. Try not to
be tempted to use a hammer or big level as you will be buying a new
front cover. Once the front cover is off there is an extra bolt holding
the back plate to the block. Undo this bolt and gently prise off the
back plate. The repalce the water pump guts you really need a bearing press.

Hope this helps. Any more questions please fire away. If you do not have
the workshop manual, buy one now.

conor1_ie wrote:
I'm trying to change the water pump and have got as far as lifting the
head. how will it pull off with the timming chain still around the
crankshaft.








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PostPost by: "Sean Murray" » Tue May 10, 2005 6:28 pm

IMHO I wouldn't recommend setting the engine at 90deg BTDC. Firstly, it serves no useful purpose when dismantling. Secondly, you will then need torotate each cam individually to TDC position before reassembling. This can cause valves to lock up, and result in a lot of head scratching !

It may be possible to remove the front cover w/o removing the head, but itwill be a lot more difficult and risky, and it will be practically impossible to get a good oil seal when reassembling.

Sean Murray
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Waterworth
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Water Pump Timming Chain


I have just finished the same job this winter. I am not sure if you say
you have already lifted the head?

The timing chain will need to come off before lifting the head. Put the
engine at 90 degrees BTDC this way the pistons are half way down the
bores and well away from the valves. Take off the cam sprokets, put a
bit of wire around the chain to stop it disappearing in to the sump.

Undo all the from cover bolts and gently prise off the front cover. It
will not want to come off but gentle persistance should work. Try not to
be tempted to use a hammer or big level as you will be buying a new
front cover. Once the front cover is off there is an extra bolt holding
the back plate to the block. Undo this bolt and gently prise off the
back plate. The repalce the water pump guts you really need a bearing press.

Hope this helps. Any more questions please fire away. If you do not have
the workshop manual, buy one now.

conor1_ie wrote:
I'm trying to change the water pump and have got as far as lifting the
head. how will it pull off with the timming chain still around the
crankshaft.








To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html



Yahoo! Groups Links









--

Regards,

Steve Waterworth
***@***.***

Einstein: "The faster you drive, the slower you age..."





To search the mailing list archives:
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"Sean Murray"
 

PostPost by: tvacc » Tue May 10, 2005 6:28 pm

A few other things to look out for..



Don't drop the cam sprocket bolts or washers into the sump. And
remember.there is a bolt that comes up to the bottom of the head through the
front cover.on one of the sides..I think the side by the generator. This is
not that bad of a job.once you get the head off..you don't have to worry
about the chain..you can get to it once you have the front cover off. There
is no need to remove the back of the front cover assembly (the part that
attaches to the block by one bolt). Also..remove the timing chain
tensioner bolt and spring and plunger before you remove the front cover...in
fact..before you remove the head. Don't want to drop those in the sump.



Disconnectt the battery.for when you remove the water temp bulb. That can
short out..happened to me once..dont remember how..but there were sparks.



Take some advice.spend the $700 for a Bean Cassette front cover if you plan
to keep the car. I would.



You might want to check your valve clearances as long as you have the head
off.



Tony V







_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Steve Waterworth
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 1:37 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Water Pump Timming Chain



I have just finished the same job this winter. I am not sure if you say
you have already lifted the head?

The timing chain will need to come off before lifting the head. Put the
engine at 90 degrees BTDC this way the pistons are half way down the
bores and well away from the valves. Take off the cam sprokets, put a
bit of wire around the chain to stop it disappearing in to the sump.

Undo all the from cover bolts and gently prise off the front cover. It
will not want to come off but gentle persistance should work. Try not to
be tempted to use a hammer or big level as you will be buying a new
front cover. Once the front cover is off there is an extra bolt holding
the back plate to the block. Undo this bolt and gently prise off the
back plate. The repalce the water pump guts you really need a bearing press.

Hope this helps. Any more questions please fire away. If you do not have
the workshop manual, buy one now.

conor1_ie wrote:
I'm trying to change the water pump and have got as far as lifting the
head. how will it pull off with the timming chain still around the
crankshaft.








To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:


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Drive Fast Take Chances
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99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: steveww » Tue May 10, 2005 7:02 pm

OK do it your way but I prefer to have things at 90 BTDC so that if the
cams rotate at all while the head is still on the block nothing is going
to bash in to any thing else.

One more thing to note. The valves will stick out of the head so DO NOT
place the head face down as you could bend a valve. If you must place it
face down use a wooden block at each end to ensure there is a gap.

Sean Murray wrote:
IMHO I wouldn't recommend setting the engine at 90deg BTDC. Firstly, it serves no useful purpose when dismantling. Secondly, you will then need to rotate each cam individually to TDC position before reassembling. This can cause valves to lock up, and result in a lot of head scratching !

It may be possible to remove the front cover w/o removing the head, but it will be a lot more difficult and risky, and it will be practically impossible to get a good oil seal when reassembling.

Sean Murray
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Waterworth
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Water Pump Timming Chain


I have just finished the same job this winter. I am not sure if you say
you have already lifted the head?

The timing chain will need to come off before lifting the head. Put the
engine at 90 degrees BTDC this way the pistons are half way down the
bores and well away from the valves. Take off the cam sprokets, put a
bit of wire around the chain to stop it disappearing in to the sump.

Undo all the from cover bolts and gently prise off the front cover. It
will not want to come off but gentle persistance should work. Try not to
be tempted to use a hammer or big level as you will be buying a new
front cover. Once the front cover is off there is an extra bolt holding
the back plate to the block. Undo this bolt and gently prise off the
back plate. The repalce the water pump guts you really need a bearing press.

Hope this helps. Any more questions please fire away. If you do not have
the workshop manual, buy one now.

conor1_ie wrote:
> I'm trying to change the water pump and have got as far as lifting the
> head. how will it pull off with the timming chain still around the
> crankshaft.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To search the mailing list archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--

Regards,

Steve Waterworth
***@***.***

Einstein: "The faster you drive, the slower you age..."





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Regards,

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PostPost by: M100 » Wed May 11, 2005 7:15 am

On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:52:41 -0000, "conor1_ie" <***@***.***>
wrote:

I'm trying to change the water pump and have got as far as lifting the
head. how will it pull off with the timming chain still around the
crankshaft.

Remove another dozen bolts, get yourself a hoist and the engine could
be sat on the workshop floor in a couple of hours - the water pump is
then quite easy to remove and replace ;-)

(quite easy is pushing it but you get my drift)

Martin

72/45
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PostPost by: conor1_ie » Wed May 11, 2005 9:11 am

Thanks for the advice I'll tackle it again later today. I'm still
bewildered how the head will lift up with the chain in place, maybe a
two man job. I've already tried to remove the front cover without
lifting the head, it seames to be caught around the water pump area.
conor1_ie
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed May 11, 2005 1:05 pm

--- In ***@***.***, "conor1_ie" <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for the advice I'll tackle it again later today. I'm still
bewildered how the head will lift up with the chain in place, maybe a
two man job. I've already tried to remove the front cover without
lifting the head, it seames to be caught around the water pump area.


With the cam sprockets removed and the chain loose the head comes off
no problems oonce you have all the bolts out. You can remove the front
cover without removing the head, its just very very very hard to put it
back in place and get the gaskets in and sealing without removing the
head or sump or preferably both.

The front cover mounted water pump seals to the back plate and block
with an o ring sealed circular section that projects back from the
front cover through the back plate to the pump impellor which sits
inside the block. This normally corrodes in place thus producing the
effect you are seeing of the front cover being caught around the water
pump area. Keep working gently on it and it will eventually move.

regards
Rohan
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PostPost by: tvacc » Wed May 11, 2005 3:14 pm

The head will not come off with the chain in place.don't know where you got
that from all this discussion..



You have to remove the timing chain temsioner. Then remove the timing
chain sprokets.being careful not to drop the bolts or the washers into the
sump. The chain will not be off the head. Let it drop into the front cover.
Remove the large head bolts on top.the 3 smaller bolts on the front
cover..and the head will come off.



Then you can remove the front cover after removing those bolts, the crank
pully..and waterpump pully



Tony V



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of conor1_ie
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:10 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Water Pump Timming Chain



Thanks for the advice I'll tackle it again later today. I'm still
bewildered how the head will lift up with the chain in place, maybe a
two man job. I've already tried to remove the front cover without
lifting the head, it seames to be caught around the water pump area.







To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:





_____
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Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: tvacc » Wed May 11, 2005 3:25 pm

Let me correct my spelling and verbage



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of Tony Vaccaro
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 11:15 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Water Pump Timming Chain



The head will not come off with the chain in place.don't know where you got
that from all this discussion..



You have to remove the timing chain temsioner. Take out out the screw
assembly and the spring and plunger.. Then remove the timing
chain sprokets.being careful not to drop the bolts or the washers into the
sump. The chain will now be off the head.



Let it drop into the front cover.
Remove the large head bolts on top.the 3 smaller bolts on the front
cover..and the head will come off. Remember..Those 3 small bolts..there is
one right on top.and one on each side.one goes down from the top and other
one goes up from the bottom.



Then you can remove the front cover after removing the 7 or 8...maybe 9
bolts on the front cover, the crank bolt and the crank pully
pully..and waterpump pully.



You may want to loosen the crank bolt while you still have the head in
place..as you can jam a screw driver in the chain sprocket to make the
removal of the crank bolt easier.



Tony V



_____

From: ***@***.***lto:***@***.*** Behalf
Of conor1_ie
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:10 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Water Pump Timming Chain



Thanks for the advice I'll tackle it again later today. I'm still
bewildered how the head will lift up with the chain in place, maybe a
two man job. I've already tried to remove the front cover without
lifting the head, it seames to be caught around the water pump area.







To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

CopyrightC LotusElan.net and the author:





_____
Terms of Service.
Tony Vaccaro
http://www.lotusowners.com
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
Drive Fast Take Chances
71 Spyder Elan, ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 91 M100 Elan, 74 Europa, 72 Europa JPS #15, 68 Elan Coupe RHD
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PostPost by: "Sean Murray" » Wed May 11, 2005 9:20 pm

Conor,

The head will NOT lift up with the timing chain in place.
You need to remove the camshaft sprockets to release the chain.
Only one (careful ) man required !

Sean Murray
----- Original Message -----
From: conor1_ie
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Water Pump Timming Chain


Thanks for the advice I'll tackle it again later today. I'm still
bewildered how the head will lift up with the chain in place, maybe a
two man job. I've already tried to remove the front cover without
lifting the head, it seames to be caught around the water pump area.







To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html






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