Lotus Elan

QED head

PostPost by: hantsjo » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:47 am

Hi,
I've sent my head off to QED for their 'sprint special 360' spec head work.
They say its 'good for' 130-140 hp, I've got a set of tubular headers and
was wondering if there was any other (cheap) mods to get the most out of
this setup. Has anyone else had this work dome, what did you do about
jetting (delortos) etc. All advise very welcome.

TIA.
Jo.
65 S2
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PostPost by: davidallen » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:48 am

My car has a QED head and also delortos. QED provided a spec sheet with the
jet sizes etc. I needed offset dowels to set the cams up correctly.

If you are anywhere near Yorkshire I can recommend Bogg Brothers Rolling
Road to set the carbs up once it is fitted.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: J. Lewthwaite [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 24 March 2005 10:48
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head



Hi,
I've sent my head off to QED for their 'sprint special 360' spec head work.
They say its 'good for' 130-140 hp, I've got a set of tubular headers and
was wondering if there was any other (cheap) mods to get the most out of
this setup. Has anyone else had this work dome, what did you do about
jetting (delortos) etc. All advise very welcome.

TIA.
Jo.
65 S2







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http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html



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PostPost by: M100 » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:36 pm

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:48:18 -0000, "ALLEN, David"
<***@***.***> wrote:

If you are anywhere near Yorkshire I can recommend Bogg Brothers Rolling
Road to set the carbs up once it is fitted.

Never heard of them, have you got a location/number ?

Martin (Yorkshire)

72/45
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PostPost by: davidallen » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:34 pm

Never heard of them! They are a living legend!

Their address is:

Bogg Bros Ltd
The Garage, East Lutton, Malton, North Yorkshire YO17 8TG
Tel: 01944 738234

And they really are in the middle of nowhere!

They do a lot of work for rally cars/grass tracks but now are also the UK
experts on fitting bike carbs. David, the boss, who must be 70+ really knows
his stuff.

When I was there last there was a green elan he had been restoring in the
yard and a TVR fitted with a twin cam.

There prices are very reasonable as well. I cannot recommend them enough.

David (no connections!)

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Evans [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 24 March 2005 12:36
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head



On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:48:18 -0000, "ALLEN, David"
<***@***.***> wrote:

If you are anywhere near Yorkshire I can recommend Bogg Brothers Rolling
Road to set the carbs up once it is fitted.

Never heard of them, have you got a location/number ?

Martin (Yorkshire)

72/45
--






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PostPost by: hantsjo » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:46 pm

Hi David,
Thanks for the reply. I live near Portsmouth... which spec head did you go
for?

Jo
65 S2
----- Original Message -----
My car has a QED head and also delortos. QED provided a spec sheet with the
jet sizes etc. I needed offset dowels to set the cams up correctly.

If you are anywhere near Yorkshire I can recommend Bogg Brothers Rolling
Road to set the carbs up once it is fitted.

David
hantsjo
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Posts: 45
Joined: 17 Oct 2003

PostPost by: davidallen » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:58 pm

I don't know which the spec head is, but it has the 420 cams. I brought the
car with a new but none running engine. Knowing how expensive these heads
are, I brought the car. Big mistake!

The previous owner was a "cheque book" mechanic and tipped loads of money
into the car but fitted everything incorrectly! I eventually got the car
running sufficiently to get it to Dave Bogg's who spotted a problem at
4000rpm. This was identified as being the cams fitted incorrectly by the
previous owner.

However, I came back a lot quicker than I went!

David



-----Original Message-----
From: J. Lewthwaite [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 24 March 2005 14:46
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head



Hi David,
Thanks for the reply. I live near Portsmouth... which spec head did you go
for?

Jo
65 S2
----- Original Message -----
My car has a QED head and also delortos. QED provided a spec sheet with the
jet sizes etc. I needed offset dowels to set the cams up correctly.

If you are anywhere near Yorkshire I can recommend Bogg Brothers Rolling
Road to set the carbs up once it is fitted.

David







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http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html



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PostPost by: "Martin Stuart" » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:47 pm

Sorry to butt in on the thread, but I'd second everything David says. Old Man Bogg (Dave Bogg, father of the current Bogg brothers) was a genius with carbs and by all accounts his sons have inherited the ability.

Very reasonable price, middle of nowhere (East Lutton doen't even rate as a one-horse-town; I had it in my head they were at West Lutton actually, but that's splitting hairs - you could shout from one to t'other).

Only word of caution, unless they have changed it in recent years: don't believe anything their dyno tells you - it over-reads dramatically. They set up the 1630cc semi-race Crossflow in my Sylva and according to the dyno , with 3 of us sat on the boot to stop it climbing off the rollers, it was giving over 160bhp at the back wheels, which is clearly nonsense for a moderate spec. Crossflow. A friends bike engined single-seater gave similarly optomistic readings.

Still the end result is always a beautifully tractable set-up with loads of power and no flat spots, so who cares whet the actual figures are?

Like David, no connection other than being a very well satisfied customer.

Martin


----- Original Message -----
From: ALLEN, David
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:33 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head


Never heard of them! They are a living legend!

Their address is:

Bogg Bros Ltd
The Garage, East Lutton, Malton, North Yorkshire YO17 8TG
Tel: 01944 738234

And they really are in the middle of nowhere!

They do a lot of work for rally cars/grass tracks but now are also the UK
experts on fitting bike carbs. David, the boss, who must be 70+ really knows
his stuff.

When I was there last there was a green elan he had been restoring in the
yard and a TVR fitted with a twin cam.

There prices are very reasonable as well. I cannot recommend them enough.

David (no connections!)
"Martin Stuart"
 

PostPost by: s2lola » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:22 pm

Quite right Martin,

Rolling roads are a brilliant bit of kit for setting up cars. WRT the
accuracy of the dyno, I agree: who cares AS LONG AS ITS CONSISTENT AND
REPEATABLE day after day, pull after pull, and has a stable correction
factor to take into account changes in humidity/density/air temp. Its only
meant to provide a stable comparable baseline from which you make changes to
optomize performance.

We've seen a certain National formula ford engine builder advertise his
engines at "127hp on his dyno". WOW. I could lap the field with that
motor in the car if the power was "real" - the other national builders have
top notch ratings of 117 give or take a hp.

Cheers,
Bill

PS, You can also use a strobe light to check axles, CVs, driveshafts, etc.
on a rolling road. Also great for looking for leaks on a new motor
installation, etc......

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Stuart [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/03/24 15:47
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head



Sorry to butt in on the thread, but I'd second everything David says. Old
Man Bogg (Dave Bogg, father of the current Bogg brothers) was a genius with
carbs and by all accounts his sons have inherited the ability.

Very reasonable price, middle of nowhere (East Lutton doen't even rate as a
one-horse-town; I had it in my head they were at West Lutton actually, but
that's splitting hairs - you could shout from one to t'other).

Only word of caution, unless they have changed it in recent years: don't
believe anything their dyno tells you - it over-reads dramatically. They set
up the 1630cc semi-race Crossflow in my Sylva and according to the dyno ,
with 3 of us sat on the boot to stop it climbing off the rollers, it was
giving over 160bhp at the back wheels, which is clearly nonsense for a
moderate spec. Crossflow. A friends bike engined single-seater gave
similarly optomistic readings.

Still the end result is always a beautifully tractable set-up with loads of
power and no flat spots, so who cares whet the actual figures are?

Like David, no connection other than being a very well satisfied customer.

Martin


----- Original Message -----
From: ALLEN, David
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:33 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head


Never heard of them! They are a living legend!

Their address is:

Bogg Bros Ltd
The Garage, East Lutton, Malton, North Yorkshire YO17 8TG
Tel: 01944 738234

And they really are in the middle of nowhere!

They do a lot of work for rally cars/grass tracks but now are also the UK
experts on fitting bike carbs. David, the boss, who must be 70+ really
knows
his stuff.

When I was there last there was a green elan he had been restoring in the
yard and a TVR fitted with a twin cam.

There prices are very reasonable as well. I cannot recommend them enough.

David (no connections!)










To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

Copyright(c) LotusElan.net and the author:

Yahoo! Groups Links








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PostPost by: lotuselan2 » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:12 am

Bill

I like your comment about motor HP numbers. When I raced FF200 0, my
low-end English engine builder had consistent numbers of 137 HP on my
rebuilds and my competitors talked about their 145. On the long straights
of Zandvoort and the old Hockenheim I could real them in. Some horses are
just bigger than others!

Ken

'69 +2 with BDR



_____

From: Bill Tebbutt [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:23 PM
To: '***@***.***'
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head



Quite right Martin,

Rolling roads are a brilliant bit of kit for setting up cars. WRT the
accuracy of the dyno, I agree: who cares AS LONG AS ITS CONSISTENT AND
REPEATABLE day after day, pull after pull, and has a stable correction
factor to take into account changes in humidity/density/air temp. Its only
meant to provide a stable comparable baseline from which you make changes to
optomize performance.

We've seen a certain National formula ford engine builder advertise his
engines at "127hp on his dyno". WOW. I could lap the field with that
motor in the car if the power was "real" - the other national builders have
top notch ratings of 117 give or take a hp.

Cheers,
Bill

PS, You can also use a strobe light to check axles, CVs, driveshafts, etc.
on a rolling road. Also great for looking for leaks on a new motor
installation, etc......

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Stuart [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/03/24 15:47
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head



Sorry to butt in on the thread, but I'd second everything David says. Old
Man Bogg (Dave Bogg, father of the current Bogg brothers) was a genius with
carbs and by all accounts his sons have inherited the ability.

Very reasonable price, middle of nowhere (East Lutton doen't even rate as a
one-horse-town; I had it in my head they were at West Lutton actually, but
that's splitting hairs - you could shout from one to t'other).

Only word of caution, unless they have changed it in recent years: don't
believe anything their dyno tells you - it over-reads dramatically. They set
up the 1630cc semi-race Crossflow in my Sylva and according to the dyno ,
with 3 of us sat on the boot to stop it climbing off the rollers, it was
giving over 160bhp at the back wheels, which is clearly nonsense for a
moderate spec. Crossflow. A friends bike engined single-seater gave
similarly optomistic readings.

Still the end result is always a beautifully tractable set-up with loads of
power and no flat spots, so who cares whet the actual figures are?

Like David, no connection other than being a very well satisfied customer.

Martin


----- Original Message -----
From: ALLEN, David
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:33 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head


Never heard of them! They are a living legend!

Their address is:

Bogg Bros Ltd
The Garage, East Lutton, Malton, North Yorkshire YO17 8TG
Tel: 01944 738234

And they really are in the middle of nowhere!

They do a lot of work for rally cars/grass tracks but now are also the UK
experts on fitting bike carbs. David, the boss, who must be 70+ really
knows
his stuff.

When I was there last there was a green elan he had been restoring in the
yard and a TVR fitted with a twin cam.

There prices are very reasonable as well. I cannot recommend them enough.

David (no connections!)










To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html

Copyright(c) LotusElan.net and the author:
http://www.lotuselan.net/publish/legal_stuff.shtml
Terms of Service.
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'94 Subaru SVX
'04 Audi allroad
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PostPost by: davidallen » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:53 am

Sylva!! I have a Sylva as well - a Stylus with a crossflow, which was also
set up at Bogg's.

I have found it to be excellent, a true sports car, and am consistently
annoyed when it is referred to as a "kit car"!

What Sylva have you?

David (+,2 Sylva Stylus)

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Stuart [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 24 March 2005 20:47
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head



Sorry to butt in on the thread, but I'd second everything David says. Old
Man Bogg (Dave Bogg, father of the current Bogg brothers) was a genius with
carbs and by all accounts his sons have inherited the ability.

Very reasonable price, middle of nowhere (East Lutton doen't even rate as a
one-horse-town; I had it in my head they were at West Lutton actually, but
that's splitting hairs - you could shout from one to t'other).

Only word of caution, unless they have changed it in recent years: don't
believe anything their dyno tells you - it over-reads dramatically. They set
up the 1630cc semi-race Crossflow in my Sylva and according to the dyno ,
with 3 of us sat on the boot to stop it climbing off the rollers, it was
giving over 160bhp at the back wheels, which is clearly nonsense for a
moderate spec. Crossflow. A friends bike engined single-seater gave
similarly optomistic readings.

Still the end result is always a beautifully tractable set-up with loads of
power and no flat spots, so who cares whet the actual figures are?

Like David, no connection other than being a very well satisfied customer.

Martin


----- Original Message -----
From: ALLEN, David
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:33 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: QED head


Never heard of them! They are a living legend!

Their address is:

Bogg Bros Ltd
The Garage, East Lutton, Malton, North Yorkshire YO17 8TG
Tel: 01944 738234

And they really are in the middle of nowhere!

They do a lot of work for rally cars/grass tracks but now are also the UK
experts on fitting bike carbs. David, the boss, who must be 70+ really
knows
his stuff.

When I was there last there was a green elan he had been restoring in the
yard and a TVR fitted with a twin cam.

There prices are very reasonable as well. I cannot recommend them enough.

David (no connections!)










To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html



Yahoo! Groups Links
davidallen
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PostPost by: Rob_LaMoreaux » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:29 pm

I like your comment about motor HP numbers. When I raced FF200 0, my
low-end English engine builder had consistent numbers of 137 HP on my
rebuilds and my competitors talked about their 145. On the
long straights
of Zandvoort and the old Hockenheim I could real them in.
Some horses are
just bigger than others!



Reminds me of the story from back in the 50s when the Grand Prix engine spec
changed and one of the British teams (BRM I think) was developing a new
engine until they heard from a vendor what the Dyno at Ferrari was saying.
They decided there was no way they would be able to make that much
horsepower, so they dropped out of competition. Years later one of the
principals from the team was talking to someone about it and the other
person said "But of course you knew Enzo had his Dynos set up to read high
by (some number I can't remember) didn't you?"

The British teams engine was actually making better horsepower, but Ferrari
intimidated them out of competition by setting their dyno to read high.

Don't believe the numbers from a dyno unless you know it was calibrated and
by who. On the other hand relative numbers from the same dyno used in tuning
are useful.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
Cell (734)-604-9280
Email: ***@***.***
Too many Hobbies.... Too Little Time
1969 Lotus Elan....It's not a restoration, it's a never-ending adventure.
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PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:40 pm

Rob,

That was Coventry Climax's "Godiva" 2.5L V-8. There was an article on it in"Motorsport" a few years back.

Roger

>> ***@***.*** 3/25/05 8:29:43 AM >>>

I like your comment about motor HP numbers. When I raced FF200 0, my
low-end English engine builder had consistent numbers of 137 HP on my
rebuilds and my competitors talked about their 145. On the
long straights
of Zandvoort and the old Hockenheim I could real them in.
Some horses are
just bigger than others!



Reminds me of the story from back in the 50s when the Grand Prix engine spec
changed and one of the British teams (BRM I think) was developing a new
engine until they heard from a vendor what the Dyno at Ferrari was saying.
They decided there was no way they would be able to make that much
horsepower, so they dropped out of competition. Years later one of the
principals from the team was talking to someone about it and the other
person said "But of course you knew Enzo had his Dynos set up to read high
by (some number I can't remember) didn't you?"

The British teams engine was actually making better horsepower, but Ferrari
intimidated them out of competition by setting their dyno to read high.

Don't believe the numbers from a dyno unless you know it was calibrated and
by who. On the other hand relative numbers from the same dyno used in tuning
are useful.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
Cell (734)-604-9280
Email: ***@***.***
Too many Hobbies.... Too Little Time
1969 Lotus Elan....It's not a restoration, it's a never-ending adventure.









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http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html



Yahoo! Groups Links










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PostPost by: steveww » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:55 pm

No such thing as cheap horse power. However, you could have bought a
tungsten carbide burr and done the head work yourself for a fraction of
the cost of a QED 360 - what ever that is.

Ee when I were a lad we did all the head work ourselves, these days
people just want to pay for someone else to do the work. Can't figure it
out myself. I did the twinc head for 8 hours work, GBP10 for the burr
and GBP20 for spirawraps. Not to mention the satisfaction for a job well
done.

Putting the soap box away now ;-)

J. Lewthwaite wrote:
Hi,
I've sent my head off to QED for their 'sprint special 360' spec head work.
They say its 'good for' 130-140 hp, I've got a set of tubular headers and
was wondering if there was any other (cheap) mods to get the most out of
this setup. Has anyone else had this work dome, what did you do about
jetting (delortos) etc. All advise very welcome.

TIA.
Jo.
65 S2







To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html



Yahoo! Groups Links










--

Regards,

Steve Waterworth
***@***.***

Einstein: "The faster you drive, the slower you age..."
User avatar
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:46 pm

But Steve,when you did that,did you know what you were doing or like me just opening things up and straightening things out
Have you measured any increase in flow

P.S.

420 lift on inlet with 1.625 valves and 380 (i think) on exhaust with 1.4 valves.

Steve Waterworth <***@***.***> wrote:

No such thing as cheap horse power. However, you could have bought a
tungsten carbide burr and done the head work yourself for a fraction of
the cost of a QED 360 - what ever that is.

Ee when I were a lad we did all the head work ourselves, these days
people just want to pay for someone else to do the work. Can't figure it
out myself. I did the twinc head for 8 hours work, GBP10 for the burr
and GBP20 for spirawraps. Not to mention the satisfaction for a job well
done.
User avatar
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PostPost by: steveww » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:28 pm

OK to be fair I have done a few heads before and a good friend of mine
does it for a living so was on hand to give some advice. We did put the
head on his flow bench before and after and got a good increase.

JOHN CLEGG wrote:
But Steve,when you did that,did you know what you were doing or like me just opening things up and straightening things out
Have you measured any increase in flow

P.S.

420 lift on inlet with 1.625 valves and 380 (i think) on exhaust with 1.4valves.

Steve Waterworth <***@***.***> wrote:

No such thing as cheap horse power. However, you could have bought a
tungsten carbide burr and done the head work yourself for a fraction of
the cost of a QED 360 - what ever that is.

Ee when I were a lad we did all the head work ourselves, these days
people just want to pay for someone else to do the work. Can't figure it
out myself. I did the twinc head for 8 hours work, GBP10 for the burr
and GBP20 for spirawraps. Not to mention the satisfaction for a job well
done.











To search the mailing list archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/europ ... index.html



Yahoo! Groups Links










--

Regards,

Steve Waterworth
***@***.***

Einstein: "The faster you drive, the slower you age..."
User avatar
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