Lotus Elan

Brake Fluid

PostPost by: ElliottN » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:12 pm

Not so long ago acquired a S4 and am going to flush/refill/bleed
brake & clutch hydraulics as the fluid has likely been in for a few
years now. Systems are original Girling master cylinders etc. and
while neither has any leaks or are giving any problems - I want to
know I have clean, fresh fluid going forward.

Is there any specific grade of fluid I should be using or avoiding -
e.g. is DOT 5 a no-no in older systems?

thanx.
Elliott - 70 S4 dhc
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PostPost by: twincamracing » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:32 pm

Not so long ago acquired a S4 and am going to flush/refill/bleed
brake & clutch hydraulics
Is there any specific grade of fluid I should be using or avoiding -
e.g. is DOT 5 a no-no in older systems?

my personal preference is Castrol GT LMA (DOT 4) as it is compatible
with the rubber in the Girling systems. many of the over-the-counter
variety of fluids are not. silicone is a no no for a street car.
scott

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PostPost by: "e s" » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:40 pm

----. silicone is a no no for a street car.
scott



Buncha rubbish, used it for 20 years in my street car[s] and never had a problem.
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PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:58 pm

I've had silicone in my S3-SS for 20 years too. I use LMA in my race cars, because silicone IS a NO-NO for race cars.

Yes, silicone does have a different feel, but it has been fine. When I nextrebuild the brakes on my father's Ford T flathead V8 roadster, it'll get silicone too.

Roger

>> ***@***.*** 3/8/05 11:40:21 AM >>>


----. silicone is a no no for a street car.
scott



Buncha rubbish, used it for 20 years in my street car[s] and never had a problem.
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PostPost by: "Stan Aarhus" » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:07 pm

Hi Roger,

I am not familiar with a ban on silicone brake fluid in race cars, mainly because I've never considered using it. Please elaborate. Is this FIA, SCCA, who? Where is this cited?

Thanks!

Stan

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Sieling
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Brake Fluid


I've had silicone in my S3-SS for 20 years too. I use LMA in my race cars, because silicone IS a NO-NO for race cars.

Yes, silicone does have a different feel, but it has been fine. When I next rebuild the brakes on my father's Ford T flathead V8 roadster, it'll getsilicone too.

Roger

>> ***@***.*** 3/8/05 11:40:21 AM >>>


----. silicone is a no no for a street car.
scott



Buncha rubbish, used it for 20 years in my street car[s] and never had a problem.
--
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PostPost by: thewris » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:23 pm

For a good, brief description of the various brake fluids and their
properties, go to http://www.vtr.org/maintain/brake-fluids.html

-Pete Wrisley


-----Original Message-----
From: Stan Aarhus [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:59 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Brake Fluid


Hi Roger,

I am not familiar with a ban on silicone brake fluid in race cars, mainly
because I've never considered using it. Please elaborate. Is this FIA,
SCCA, who? Where is this cited?

Thanks!

Stan

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Sieling
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Brake Fluid


I've had silicone in my S3-SS for 20 years too. I use LMA in my race cars,
because silicone IS a NO-NO for race cars.

Yes, silicone does have a different feel, but it has been fine. When I
next rebuild the brakes on my father's Ford T flathead V8 roadster, it'll
get silicone too.

Roger

>> ***@***.*** 3/8/05 11:40:21 AM >>>


----. silicone is a no no for a street car.
scott



Buncha rubbish, used it for 20 years in my street car[s] and never had a
problem.
--
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PostPost by: M100 » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:25 pm

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 12:01:40 -0000, "elliottdn" <***@***.***>
wrote:

Not so long ago acquired a S4 and am going to flush/refill/bleed
brake & clutch hydraulics as the fluid has likely been in for a few
years now. Systems are original Girling master cylinders etc. and
while neither has any leaks or are giving any problems - I want to
know I have clean, fresh fluid going forward.

Is there any specific grade of fluid I should be using or avoiding -
e.g. is DOT 5 a no-no in older systems?

First find out what it is using at the moment!

I personally use DOT 3 or 4 and change it every year, with a capable
helper you can do it in 15 mins - ok I lied if it's the clutch that
needs doing as well but you can easily do the brakes that quickly. I
considered silicone 20 years ago and still have a couple of litres of
it on the shelf - in hindsight after seeing problems in its usage I'm
glad I've never used it.

DOT 5 Silicone has its own set of problems with regard to seal
compatibility if its put in a system previously using glycol based
brake fluid (DOT 3 or 4) or if seals are of the wrong material In
addition DOT 5 can carry far more dissolved gases and pool entrained
water at the lowest point in your braking system (the calipers) where
it can cause VERY spongy brakes or total failure.

Martin
72/45
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PostPost by: "Roger Sieling" » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:42 pm

Stan,

There is no ban by anyone I know of, but silicone doesn't seem to take heatfrom racing as well as DOT 3 or 4 fluids.

Just after I restored my SS almost 20 years ago, w/ just under 500 miles on the clock, I ran it in the vintage support race of the 1st Columbus 500 IMSA race. I don't know if it was from green fade of the pads or the siliconfluid, but I was pretty brakeless after about 2 laps. The pedal was still up there, just very marginal braking for a lot of foot pressure. On the vintage race web list (I believe it's also a Yahoo list), there have been a number of times a thread gets started on brakes, and one conclusion is alwaysthat silicone has no place on a car being raced. Also, pouring it into theMC requires care to keep air bubbles from forming. But, I haven't been concerned about the brakes on that Elan for an eternity now.

Roger

>> ***@***.*** 3/8/05 11:58:31 AM >>>

Hi Roger,

I am not familiar with a ban on silicone brake fluid in race cars, mainly because I've never considered using it. Please elaborate. Is this FIA, SCCA, who? Where is this cited?

Thanks!

Stan

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Sieling
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Brake Fluid


I've had silicone in my S3-SS for 20 years too. I use LMA in my race cars, because silicone IS a NO-NO for race cars.

Yes, silicone does have a different feel, but it has been fine. When I next rebuild the brakes on my father's Ford T flathead V8 roadster, it'll getsilicone too.

Roger

>> ***@***.*** 3/8/05 11:40:21 AM >>>


----. silicone is a no no for a street car.
scott



Buncha rubbish, used it for 20 years in my street car[s] and never had a problem.
--
_______________________________________________
NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once.
http://datingsearch.lycos.com







To search the mailing list archives:
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Yahoo! Groups Links










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PostPost by: tvacc » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:07 pm

Only use LMA Castrol



Tony V



_____

From: elliottdn [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:02 AM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Brake Fluid




Not so long ago acquired a S4 and am going to flush/refill/bleed
brake & clutch hydraulics as the fluid has likely been in for a few
years now. Systems are original Girling master cylinders etc. and
while neither has any leaks or are giving any problems - I want to
know I have clean, fresh fluid going forward.

Is there any specific grade of fluid I should be using or avoiding -
e.g. is DOT 5 a no-no in older systems?

thanx.








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PostPost by: TYPE45 at aol.com » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:57 pm

Way back in 1970, I disregarded the advice found on the MC cap of my 1964
Triumph TR-4. It said "Use Castrol Girling Brake Fluid Only". I rebuilt my
brakes using regular fluid and new seals. Six months later, the brakes were
leaking at every wheel. When I took them apart, the rubber seals had the
consistency of chewing gum.

I learned the hard way that most seals are made of Neoprene, but the British
seals are made of pure rubber and most brake fluid will eat pure rubber.
Apparently, Castrol will not attack pure rubber and that's why Castrol LMA is the
way to go.

The seals in modern rebuild kits may or may not be made of pure rubber
anymore, but I'm not about to take any chances.

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota
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PostPost by: "denicholls2" » Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:50 pm

This one goes around the Europa list regularly. Consensus seems to
be:

If you don't have DOT 5, DON'T CHANGE TO IT!

If you have DOT 5 and don't have any problems, be happy and stick
with it. You are indeed lucky. If you sell your car, please impress
upon the new owner that they MUST use DOT 5 forever and anon, not
because you're anal about your old car, but because they might kill
themselves if they don't.

Although the non-solubility with water was supposed to be a strength,
it can in fact be a liability as has already been noted by
concentrating water in the lines (which WILL get there.) Many
postings worth of argument probably wouldn't resolve whether the
moisture is best concentrated or distributed.

However, by far the biggest problem is that intermix with another
fluid type turns your brake fluid into whipped cream. If you change,
you have to be far more cautious in completely flushing the old
fluids than most people are willing to be. So, best not to change
regardless of what you're currently running.

I also had a Triumph (69 Spitfire) and am wondering when/whether the
transistion to synthetic seals was made (and consequently whether LMA
is really still required.) My experience was similar; rebuild
working master cylinder as precaution, lose brakes shortly
thereafter. As I'm not willing to repeat the experience, I use
LMA.

Doug Nicholls, 54/1822
"denicholls2"
 

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