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Sprint Colors.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:24 pm
by Esprit2
From: "nebogipfel2004" <***@***.***>

Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Sprint Colors.


Lotus didn't put in-mold "painting" into series production until the
Esprit S1. Then they experienced so many problems with it that they
reverted to conventional post-mold painting. If you ever see an Esprit S1
with it's original paint unmolested, and the pinstripes appear to be inlaid
into the paint rather than applied on top of the paint, that car was built
using in-mold painting. For that, the car would be quite rare.

In an earlier post, someone wrote something about Lotus injecting the
"paint" into the Elan mold. Lotus has never injected color into a mold on
a production basis, either as paint or pre-colored resin.

The VARI molding system (Vacuum Assisted Resin Injection) was introduced
with the 907 powered cars and was never used for production Elans or
Europas. With VARI, matched male-female molds are used instead of the
open molds used previously for cars like the Elite Mk 14, Elan and Europa.
The mold was laid up with dry fiberglass matte & pre-forms, and closed. A
vacuum was drawn on the mold, and then polyester resin was injected...
filling the mold and saturating the matte from a central point. Multiple
points on larger molds. The molds were then held heated to accelerate the
cure process. The result was a part with a finished surface on both sides.

When Lotus did attempt production in-mold painting of the Esprit, paint was
not injected into the molds. The mold was spray painted using conventional
methods prior to lay-up. The challenge Lotus had to over-come was finding
a catalyzed paint that would "cure" quickly (rather than "dry") to avoid
extending the molding cycle time unacceptably, and then be chemically
resistant to the aggressive solvents normally associated with polyester
resin. Epoxy resins would have been more paint-friendly, but Lotus never
made that leap. The matte lay-up and resin injection did not take place
until after the paint was cured.


Lotus did have a track record of using pre-colored gel-coat on production
parts. I don't recall the Elan Sprint specifically, but the roof panels
of Elan +2's were silver metallic, and that was gel-coat. No matter what
body color was ordered, the roof was silver metallic gel-coat and the body
was painted below the greenhouse.

"IF" Elan Sprints were colored in-mold, it was colored gel-coat, not
paint. I say that with some conviction not because I know what Lotus did,
but because there were no automotive paints in production use at the time
that would stand up to subsequent lamination with wet polyester resin. The
resin would eat the paint in the mold. Any Lotus body panels of the
Elan-Europa era that "may have been" in-mold colored were most likely
colored gel-coat.

John asked, "... if they used gel colour why not on all the Elans with
solid colours?"

Again, I don't "know" what Lotus did or why. However marketplace
standards for automotive finish were higher than gel-coat would deliver.
Even in the 60's - 70's, Lotus would have to paint the majority of the body
surface achieve a market-acceptable finish... "at least" on the surfaces
that readily meet the eye. However, it would be reasonable to use
gel-coat below the beltline where the finish isn't as closely scrutinized
and where it's often assaulted with road grime and grit. There it would be
more aesthetically acceptable, and it would be much more chip and scratch
resistant than paint.

With the Sprint, Lotus wanted to do a two-tone color scheme, and that was
normally more expensive to execute. Also, during that period Lotus was in
a perpetual death-fight with cost. So, a painted upper body over a Cirrus
White gel-coat lower body would make great sense as a typical stroke of
Chapman genius.

Lotus' fiberglass technology of the day was gel-coated polyester lay-up.
Ya gotta use gel-coat anyway, and pre-colored gel-coat was well developed
and common in the marine industry. Coincidentally, Chapman's other
interest was boats (Moonraker Marine was another Chapman company).
Applying white gel-coat to all bodies regardless of paint color simplified
production. It used an already necessary step to provide the color for the
lower half of the body (to marine standards), and simultaneously allowed
body painting to be "reduced" to just the upper half. A cost savings in
both materials and labor. A two-tone paint scheme that costs less than a
normal one-color paint job, but can be marketed as a step-up from standard.
Not a bad scheme.

I didn't come up with that flight of fantasy all by myself. I don't recall
sources, I can't quote contemporaries, I can't say with authority that is
exactly what happened. However, I was a rabid Lotus fan through that
period and I fed on every scrap of information I could get. The scenario I
"painted" above is founded upon, and consistent with the stories I recall
reading at the time.

Later,
Tim Engel
Lotus Owners Oftha North

Sprint Colors.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:05 pm
by nebogipfel
Tim,

A very comprehensive and authorative answer. Thankyou

I've seen quite a few Elans stripped to the glass and stripped a few
myself over the years and have never seen coloured gel-coat. That
doesn't mean it never happened of course. :)

I know Lotus did it later when they moved away from hand lay-up
laminating but my enthusiasm with Lotus ended in 1974 with the end of
Elan production and I no longer followed Lotus development with any
interest. Most of the later stuff is just horrible! It's hard to
imagine how the company who produced the original Elite, and Elan/+2
family could have produced what followed? (That comment should fan a
few flames :)

John

Was Sprint Colors - Now New Loti

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm
by Fred Talmadge
Well I did once lust after the original Esprit. Had a deposit on it at
the Berkeley California dealer. But when the car finally came out it
was about double what they said it was going to cost. I was sorely
disapointed and as the cars got even more expensive I seemed to have
less money and lost interest in ever getting a new Lotus.

Fred '65 S2

-----Original Message-----
From: nebogipfel2004 [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 2:05 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Sprint Colors.

interest. Most of the later stuff is just horrible! It's hard to
imagine how the company who produced the original Elite, and Elan/+2
family could have produced what followed? (That comment should fan a
few flames :)

John

Sprint Colors.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:20 pm
by BERGAMOTE
Sorry I've joined this thread late but I've been away.

I've had my sprint from new and I repainted it in 1991. The car was painted
completely in Colorado orange with the white applied over the orange. The
gel coat, to which it was all stripped back, was clear.

Lotus, in original Chapman fashion, charged ?15 for not spraying the bottom
Cirrus white.

I also have a S/130/5 with a silver metalflake roof. The metalflake was
sprayed into the gel coat during lay-up. This was the only time with the
original Elans that Lotus dabbled with the gel coat. Funnily enough I had
that resprayed in 1985 by TVR when I was living in Blackpool.

I also made a pair of fibreglass bumpers for a friend's S130/5 and sprayed
silver metalfake into the gel coat. They looked absolutely awful on the car!

Carl Peters

1972 Sprint
1973 S130/5

My metalflake roof was resprayed in 1984
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Vaccaro" <***@***.***>

Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 5:58 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Sprint Colors.



All I can say..is that they took down my car to the gel when they painted
it..and it was not white..



Tony V

Sprint Colors.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:42 pm
by s2lola
Carl,

Would it be possible to post a good pic(s) of your car in Colorado Orange???
Would like to get a sense of the colour re my own Elan restoration.

Cheers,
Bill Tebbutt
Owner of an Elan, and a long running list of race cars that have all been
orange.

-----Original Message-----
From: cfp [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/02/23 15:21
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Re: Sprint Colors.



Sorry I've joined this thread late but I've been away.

I've had my sprint from new and I repainted it in 1991. The car was painted
completely in Colorado orange with the white applied over the orange. The
gel coat, to which it was all stripped back, was clear.

Lotus, in original Chapman fashion, charged ?15 for not spraying the bottom
Cirrus white.

I also have a S/130/5 with a silver metalflake roof. The metalflake was
sprayed into the gel coat during lay-up. This was the only time with the
original Elans that Lotus dabbled with the gel coat. Funnily enough I had
that resprayed in 1985 by TVR when I was living in Blackpool.

I also made a pair of fibreglass bumpers for a friend's S130/5 and sprayed
silver metalfake into the gel coat. They looked absolutely awful on the car!

Carl Peters

1972 Sprint
1973 S130/5

My metalflake roof was resprayed in 1984
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Vaccaro" <***@***.***>

Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 5:58 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Sprint Colors.



All I can say..is that they took down my car to the gel when they painted
it..and it was not white..



Tony V
























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Sprint Colors.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:55 pm
by nebogipfel
In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...> wrote:
Carl,

Would it be possible to post a good pic(s) of your car in Colorado
Orange???


Bill,

If you can get to see a copy of "Lotus Elan" (Osprey Classic Marques)
by Duncan Wherrett, there are some nice pictures of a Colorado over
White Sprint in it.

I've seen the book on Ebay.

John

Sprint Colors.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:19 pm
by s2lola
Thanks! Will do.

-----Original Message-----
From: nebogipfel2004 [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/02/23 15:55
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Sprint Colors.




In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...> wrote: Carl,

Would it be possible to post a good pic(s) of your car in Colorado Orange???


Bill,

If you can get to see a copy of "Lotus Elan" (Osprey Classic Marques) by
Duncan Wherrett, there are some nice pictures of a Colorado over White
Sprint in it.

I've seen the book on Ebay.

John























***********************************************************************************
Financiere Banque Nationale et NBCN n'assument aucune responsabilite quant a la confidentialite et l'integrite du present courriel en raison des risques d'interception inherents a l'Internet. Pour cette raison, toute opinion exprimee au terme des presentes ne reflete pas necessairement celle de Financiere Banque Nationale et de NBCN.
***********************************************************************************
Due to the security risks involved in sending information over the Internet, National Bank Financial and NBCN can not be held
responsible for ensuring the confidentiality and integrity of the present e-mail. For this reason, the opinions expressed herein do not
necessarily reflect those of National Bank Financial and NBCN.
***********************************************************************************

Was Sprint Colors, now Sprint Colours.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:49 pm
by nebogipfel
In ***@***.***, "elansprint71" <elansprint71@b...>
wrote:
Chris Harvey book:


"New paint scheme made the Sprint and the +2S 130 readily
identifiable...... .... this was achieved by injecting paint into
the glass fibre during the moulding operation, a process which Chapman
hoped he would be able to use for all his creations."


Pete, not wishing to labour the point ;) but I suggest you re-read the
above carefully (including the missing bit within the dotted lines).

I was wondering about it so thought I'd look it up for myself.

I think you'll find he is talking about the S130 flake roof
specifically. He also mentions the possibility of silver being done
the same way if specially ordered by the customer. I wonder how many,
if any, were?

John

Sprint Colors.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:20 am
by cliveyboy
Bill
If you want some other pictures of a Colorado orange Elan. Check out mine:-
http://groups.msn.com/cliveyboylotus
Clive

Sprint Colors.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:03 pm
by s2lola
Thanks Clive. Great looking machine to my eye, in that colour.

Cheers,
Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Clivey Boy [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/02/24 03:20
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Sprint Colors.



Bill
If you want some other pictures of a Colorado orange Elan. Check out mine:-
http://groups.msn.com/cliveyboylotus
Clive






















***********************************************************************************
Financiere Banque Nationale et NBCN n'assument aucune responsabilite quant a la confidentialite et l'integrite du present courriel en raison des risques d'interception inherents a l'Internet. Pour cette raison, toute opinion exprimee au terme des presentes ne reflete pas necessairement celle de Financiere Banque Nationale et de NBCN.
***********************************************************************************
Due to the security risks involved in sending information over the Internet, National Bank Financial and NBCN can not be held
responsible for ensuring the confidentiality and integrity of the present e-mail. For this reason, the opinions expressed herein do not
necessarily reflect those of National Bank Financial and NBCN.
***********************************************************************************

Sprint Colors.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:18 am
by "Tim and Jo"
For some (medium) higher resolution pictures of my Colorado
Orange over Cirrus White Elan Sprint, check my web site:

<http://www.members.cox.net/elans4/>.

My car was originally painted Colorado Orange/Cirrus White.
The colors wrapped into the door jambs. The colors were
painted on - when it was stripped for repainting, the gel
coat was not "painted" (or white)...

Tim Mullen

Chantilly, VA
72 Elan Sprint
05 Elise

Sprint Colors.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:13 pm
by Steve Crook
My genuine sprint is presently down to the gel coat and is not white -
it was definitely painted

Steve

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